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Billy Kramer

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    #31
    Hmmmmm

    Oh well, another over priced German WWII artifact smashed to pieces.
    But maybe now I can afford to buy it in it's current condition.

    Comment

      #32
      Originally posted by tinmantis View Post
      sounds and looks like a early L/11 with the rare stamp?
      was it like this:
      regards
      jon
      No, it was not like that. It was off kilter, things were not lined up, it was like someone had a hammer and put on one symbol at a time, trying to make it look more authentic.


      And as an addendum, I'll tell you this. I was very, very active, buying medals back as early as 1982 BI (before internet). I got burned on a good many badges from a dealer...Pilot's badges, Army Flak, Navy badges, Panzer & Infantry Assault, Luft Ground Assault 75, Floch EK's. I can't do anything about it as the man has passed away and I honestly believe that he didn't know that he had and was selling fakes. From what I have learned about Floch's, it sounds like a good many dealers were willing to bury their heads in the sand and put profit ahead of knowledge. "You've got 30 EK's & they all look the same? Sure I'll buy them cheap!. Making money is the most important thing in the world to me!!"
      When I started picturing them on the WAF for a nod, good or bad, I probably had 40% +/- invalidated as fakes, including 3 EK1 Spanges. I had this EK2 Spange looked at by a very knowledgeable friend who only specializes in EK's from 1870 on and after giving it a good lookover, he stated to me that it was a very good repro. Ididn't even leave it at that. I put it on here and from what I have heard, 50% for & 50% against, I believe that I did the right thing. I am tired of people passing off fakes as the real thing. I would like to see any of you take the action that I did. Get rid of that Floch instead of making $30 or $40 or even $100 on it. Some one mentioned that they got a $100 a month ago on the BAZAAR TABLE for a Floch. Do you really believe that it is always going to be a repro and resold as a repro forever and ever, amen??? Let's see someone else, that decries the fakes and the effect that it has on stopping new collectors from entering the hobby, put up and show a badge that they bought that turned out to be a fake & destroy it instead of selling & put the pic on here. If I ever again get my hands on a fake badge or armband or anything, it gets destroyed and I will show photographic evidence of it. I have 2 good friends that wanted to sell me things that I put on here for the vetting process....helmets, badges, visor caps, anything SS & up to 75% (conservatively) turned out to be fake. I wish there was something I could do to help them. This is all I can do. If you think I'm stupid and that I shouldn't destroy fakes, that's your opinion & I will defend your right to that opinion. I've got my opinion and I did the right thing.
      Nuff' said.
      Tim
      Last edited by TP Alexander; 09-06-2012, 05:28 PM.

      Comment

        #33
        1. Destroy medal.
        2. Ask if original.

        I always do that.

        Comment

          #34
          Originally posted by Darrell View Post
          1. Destroy medal.
          2. Ask if original.

          I always do that.
          If that's what you think, good for you.

          My sequence of events was.
          1.Ask
          2.Ask again.
          3.Put on WAF & ask again.
          4.Destroy repro

          But you go ahead and think what you want.

          Comment

            #35
            Originally posted by TP Alexander View Post
            I made sure that I showed it to someone close at hand. We took it off the ribbon and looked at the back. It had mismatched die stamps on it and the numbers were different sizes. Definitely had been made up.
            Sorry but to me yours looks (or looked) very much like mine which I was told was an original unmarked Deumer. Here it is with a minty tombac L/11 marked piece. Could it be that someone just added a phoney mark to an original unmarked piece?

            JC
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #36
              Gee! With your method many collections would shrink dramatically!

              Comment

                #37
                Destruction of repros is not something that I, personally, would do. Keep them in a box somewhere...just in case. Too risky (possible destruction of an original) for the return (momentary personal satisfaction). Just my humble opinion. -Ger

                Comment

                  #38
                  People here can only assume from speculation (oh it sounds like it was like this period piece, blah, blah) TP if you and your credited friend handled the piece and both came to the same conclusion along with an unsure majority from the internet community then full credit to what you did, unless detailed photos of the piece were supplied people can't claim anything.

                  More if not all repo's should be destroyed (obviously disregarding reenacting) I know alot of collectors don't see that way mainly due to the fact that it may -

                  - complete an collection or display where an desired original piece would be missing.
                  - make the said collection look more valuable then it really is.
                  - or of which a few collectors i have known too, sell onto beginning non experienced collectors as originals.

                  If you did actively store your repo's and leave them unmarked, say what would happen if your collection was to go missing or something happened to the collector where the estate is sold off or something similar. The fakes would all flood back into the market, once again passing off as originals thus going round in a circle...

                  Obviously with some pieces you can never be too sure with, but if the cons outweigh the pro's then i say destroy every fake you come across, either that or mark them as such, i find it somewhat selfish that someone wouldn't...

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Uhh, I like it, fakes looks better like this

                    Comment

                      #40
                      As one who'll only ever have a few real items in the collection, something like the Spange would be rather nice to have. I wouldn't want to have too many copies mind you, just of a few things that are way out of reach. A LW P/O badge, a nice DKiG award, that sort of thing, so if you come across fakes like that send them my way.

                      Seriously though (though I am serious above) the problem of fakes going around and around is a real one, despicable in fact. There are those like myself who only want to dabble in the sport, but there are also very serious collectors who though enjoy making some cash on the side, actually want collect and preserve this important history.

                      The fakes in the mix have always been a pain, but the further we get from the event the harder its going to be to preserve the real deal. I don't know how you solve it because there is so much out there on the market that's honestly sold as a repro for Re-enactors and the like that's perfectly legitimate for that field, but is just as likely to end up on trading tables in the future when the re-enacting is done.

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Both were originals pieces belonging to a very well known Knight Cross holder that was run by a T34 in the Battle for Stalingrad.

                        Comment

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