did German veterans use Knight Crosses by Souval ?

[Peter Wiking]

I have often wondered if the Knight Crosses made by Souval was used by any veterans, or was it intended only for the collector market and museums ?

Thanks.
Peter Wiking

[Dietrich Maerz]

If you mean the RK with swastika made by Souval after 45 (they surely didn't produce any befopre May 45), then I do not undertstand your question. Why would a RK winner buy a Souval copy? He wasn't allowed to wear that either!!

IMHO Souval pieces with swastika are post war copies produced to fool people, if thats what you mean by collector market!

Dietrich

[Peter Wiking]

Just a shot in the dark Dietrich. Thats all.

Thanks.
Peter Wiking

[Kecon]

Peter

Never thought about it before but your question might have some merit.
Let's just say you were an RK wearer and your awards were taken from
you when you were taken captive or when you surrendered. Would you
want to replace that RK with something similar later? Of cource the 57
was available but a Souval might have been more attractive to the Vet.

I wonder what the opinion of the RK collectors might be?

BR
Ken

[Dave Kane]

Knight's Crosses (ORIGINAL) could be bought all day long in the years following the war's end!

I can't think of any reason why a Vet entitled to the RK would buy a collector piece of inferior quality when very nice original crosses were available and sold openly.

The 'taboo' of the swaz was generally overlooked and coupled with the 'status' of a RKt I imagine obtaining one or even several wasn't too difficult...

Dave

[Peter R.]

Knight's Crosses (ORIGINAL) could be bought all day long in the years following the war's end!

I can't think of any reason why a Vet entitled to the RK would buy a collector piece of inferior quality when very nice original crosses were available and sold openly.

The 'taboo' of the swaz was generally overlooked and coupled with the 'status' of a RKt I imagine obtaining one or even several wasn't too difficult...

Dave

Maybe a vet's honour wouldn't have warranted buying another vet's stolen RK on the black market, and they would have preferred to buy a new piece instead. That could be one reason.

Plus, aren't Souval pieces considered to be good quality, whether war or post-war pieces? Would that not extend to RKs as well as EK11's?

Don't mean to be contrary, just putting forward something I think is a reasonable hypothesis.

[Sonderkommando]

And don't forget, Souval KC's were being sold as real to troops as souvineers back then so the vet may have purchased one as he may have been told it was genuine and not known the difference. From the period '45 to '57 there was no other option.



Brett

[Peter Wiking]

When did Souval start the production of Knight Cross reproductions ?

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Don D.]

Would a vet even have known the difference? They probably never examined thier awards the way we do here. I can see where a vet would want one with the original design- I've seen pics of RK Traggers wearing their 1939 awards at reuinions, though they do tend to turn them around.
Don

[Kecon]

It would be interesting to take a look at Rudy Souvals' old record
books. If he kept any! Not just in regards to his RKs but with the
EK1s and 2s. Back in the old days I owned and handled a few Souval
RKs that were of very high quality. Like Don mentioned, most likely
a vet who wanted a replacement wouldn't have necessarily noticed
much difference. Besides that, an RK wasn't worth a lot of money
back then anyway.

As a side. Anyone who believes that the none of the original RK makers,
ever cranked out a few specimens post war, are fooling themselves.
Those of you who have Gordon's new EK book should have a read on
page #473, paragraph #3. If that don't scare you, I don't know what will.
It makes plopping down eight or ten grand for an RK a risky venture.
Those mint unused RKs in the original cases are especially scary.
Maybe a used specimen with honest wear patterns might be a bit
less risky, IMO.

I'm sure my statements will get the RK "big boys" all stirred up.

Ken

[Dave Kane]

I thought Souval was a 60's response to the collector's market....

Buying medals from Austria would seem unnessary when they were plentiful from war's end through the 50's!

Have a look here:


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1953



Dave

[Dave Kane]

For some reason this picture was missing from the thread...

Brett...the cross shown appears to be a S&L and with all due respect I doubt that GI's or RKt were buying Souval as 'replacement' crosses...

Strictly a collectors 'product'!


Dave

[Dave Kane]

Sorry, I forgot to address Peter R.!


The 'black market' if it were to be called that surely didn't involve itself in stolen RK's during that period.....there wasn't a need. Bread maybe!

Beyond the abundance of crosses, medals and badges laying around and begging to be sold ( in the post war economy ) there were certainly a few going out the back doors of manufacturers!

The thought of awards being 'stolen' has been discussed over and over but really hasn't a spot in a discussion of Souval post war crosses etc.!

Dave