Iron Cross EK2 on interesting Parade Medal Bar

[Rommel1933]

Hello folks. After 2 Flochs in my collection I am hoping my final EK2 on a Parade Medal Bar might be real.... This is a really interesting Medal Bar.

I find it interesting because of the large amount of Austrian WWI Medals and then a WWII Iron Cross EK2 on the left side.

I am mainly concerned w/ the Iron Cross but any comments are welcome.

From Left
Iron Cross 2nd Class
Hindenburg Cross W/ Swords
Austrian Bronze Bravery Medal (Der Tapferkeit)
Austrian King Carolus bravery medal (FORTITVDINI)
Karl Troop Cross
Commemorative Jubilee Medal for the Civil Service (What is odd is that I believe to receive this one would have had to have been a civil servant in 1898 in Austria??

[blutundehre]

As posted in the other thread, this is, I believe, is a good Brehmer #13 cross.
Weather it belongs on this bar, I have no idea, medal bars are not my thing, but it looks like the backing is sewn on using two different colored threads, black on most of the bar white on the other end, but again not my thing so it may be perfectly acceptable, but at first glance it raises a red flag or me.
Dave

[Rommel1933]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for inputs.. I appreciate you even noting the #13 on the cross. nice... Well after 2 Flochs I finally got a real one.. lol...

If you want to read about Medal Bars Tom Tyanacek's book is great!!!!

thank you again, Scott

[Don D.]

I can only speculate as to why two bronze bravery awards instead of a silver and a bronze. Normally a 2d award would be a silver clasp on the ribbon.....

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Scott,

Looks to me like all of the medals and most of the ribbons are original. But, IMO, the ribbon for the Franz Joseph I 50-Year Jubilee Medal is a modern reproduction. As already mentioned, the different color thread at the one end of the bar is an indication that something here has been altered/messed with. Notice too, that the Jubilee Medal is overlapping the Karl Truppen Cross ribbon, when the Karl Truppen Cross ribbon should be overlapping the Jubilee Medal: Just another indication that something has been messed with. Also, the ribbon of the 1914-1918 Cross of Honor should be overlapping the ribbon of the first Bravery Medal but it's the other way around. This is an indication that there was also some altering that went on at the left end of the bar. The ribbon of a medal should overlap the ribbon of the medal to its right. The overlap on this bar is inconsistent in two different places. What's wrong with that picture? Also notice how inconsistent the width of the ribbon wraps are on this bar: Some are very wide and others are scrunched together. Very sloppy workmanship to say the least. The mounting components look okay so some of this bar may, in fact, be a legitimate assembly of an Austro-Hungarian medal bar that was altered and pimped up into what is now only a parts bar.

Does this bar as a whole tell a logical/believable story? IMO, it does not.

1) The presence of the FJ Jubilee Medal for Civil Servants means that this guy is an adult working in civil service by 1898, so he is probably around twenty years old if not older by this time.

2) The guy is now thirty-six years old at the start of WW1 (1914) and age forty at the end of the war in 1918.

3) During WW1 he is awarded two Bronze Bravery Medals: one under Emperor Franz Joseph and one under Emperor Karl. The first one is awarded between 1914 and 1916 and the second in 1917 to 1918. So he serves throughout all of WW1 (if not even a bit before and after) yet has no long service award? Also, as Don mentioned, there were bars for subsequent awards of the same class of the Bravery Medal, so two of the same class should not be worn together. Maybe permissible, though, since each was under a different Emperor?

4) He is still around in post-Anschluß Austria and applies for his 1914-1918 Cross of Honor, maybe in 1939. He is now sixty-one years old.

5) Sometime during WW2, he is awarded an EK2 for bravery at the combat-ready age of sixty-two plus. Possible, but very, very unlikely.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Illustration showing the inconsistent ribbon wrap widths:

[VtwinVince]

Not a plausible combination, and construction is not right. Looks like something from the Austrian fakers.

[Tom Yanacek]

Illustration showing inconsistent ribbon overlaps:

[Rommel1933]

thank you for the response Don, Dave, Vtwin, and Tom....

Tom, those are awesome visuals. I see what you mean once I saw it w/ the arrows.. I noticed the time span was off which alerted me something might not have been right.

What does one do w/ a bar like this now? Leave alone? Take apart to see whats inside? Add the medals individually to my collection? It sounds like all the medals are real. The ribbon for the Jubille medal is a repoduction so would one leave that on the medal bar?

The very good news - The EK2 is real... after Two Flochs I felt I deserved to hear good news.

I really appreciate all of your inputs.. wow.. very impressive! Thank you, Scott

[byterock]

For me another key flag for put together is the differing wear/condition of the medals themselves

1) FJ Jubilee Medal is the minty one an the one he would of worn the longest?

2) The two bronze bravery medals are only a year apart but one is much more worn than the other

Just my 2cents worth

Would of been a little more believable if it was a 1914 ICII

[Rommel1933]

Byterock,

Those are some very good points... Perhaps one would overlook some of the other things or not notice them if the WWI EK2 was on there instead of the WWII EK2. I better change it out tonight and repost!!! Just kidding.,

Thank you, SCott