EK1 GEWOLT NADEL.I need your opinion.

[julio65]

Hello.
This is my ek1 1939 gewolt-nadel maker mark 11.
I would be grateful with your opinions about it.
Many thanks.
Julio65

[J0hnny]

lovely early Deumer

Not marker 11, that is really L/11

[wvdparis2]

Deumer

can you show the makers mark ?
11 or L/11 ?

Michael

[julio65]

Many thanks to Michael and Johnny for their help.
Enclose photo of maker mark.

[streptile]

The cross is identical to a Deumer, but the mark is not an accidentally incomplete L/11. There are too many for it to be a simple mistake.

Some think your cross is a mis-marked Deumer, some think Grossmann made with Deumer parts, or even made by Deumer for Grossmann (as Zimmermann presumably made Godets).

[fabri-online]

Why not Trevor ? in the beginnig there was just the LDO list so there was not possible to confuse this maker
with the PK list that was born 1 year later.

Personally I exclude categorically that it 's a Grossmann.

[streptile]

Personally I exclude categorically that it 's a Grossmann.

Fair enough. But if this stamp read "26" (for example) would you still exclude categorically that it was a Mayer (made by Deumer)? The similarity between L/11 and 11 could be a coincidence, after all.

Personally I don't have an opinion if this is a Deumer or a Grossmann. I think Deumer is much more likely but either is possible at this point. We know one maker's cross with another maker's stamp -- and we call that cross by the name of the second maker. L/50 is the perfect example.

[streptile]

Personally I exclude categorically that it 's a Grossmann.

Fair enough. But if this stamp read "26" (for example) would you still exclude categorically that it was a Mayer (made by Deumer)? The similarity between L/11 and 11 could be a coincidence, after all.

Personally I don't have an opinion if this is a Deumer or a Grossmann. I think Deumer is more likely the maker but that either is possible at this point. We know one maker's cross with another maker's stamp -- and we call that cross by the name of the second maker. L/50 is the perfect example.

[fabri-online]

Naturally we are talking about thoughts so every thought could be potentially right.
I think that it 's a Deumer for the following reasons:
1 - all parts of these crosses come from Deumer
2 - 11 belongs to Deumer in the LDO list
3 - the early L/11 stamp seems the natural evolution of this 11 stamp
4 - Grossmann EKIIs have different frame and core than these EKIs and they had a partnership with another company.

[streptile]

Hi Fabri,

I agree with all the excellent points you have made and for these reasons I also think this cross most probably is not related to Grossmann.

I hope some day we will know for sure.

[wvdparis2]

Naturally we are talking about thoughts so every thought could be potentially right.
I think that it 's a Deumer for the following reasons:
1 - all parts of these crosses come from Deumer
2 - 11 belongs to Deumer in the LDO list
3 - the early L/11 stamp seems the natural evolution of this 11 stamp
4 - Grossmann EKIIs have different frame and core than these EKIs and they had a partnership with another company.

I totally agree with those 4 statements and conclusion...
Having observed many Deumers (I like Deumer !), all the "11" I handled were 100% Deumers : parts (frame, core, set up ..), finish, ..
IMO only a mistake "11" instead of L/11
interesting point is that I saw more "11" with this set up than "L/11"

Michael

[julio65]

Many thanks to all the members for this very interesting discussion, always learning something.
Best regards
Julio65