EK2 L/12 Spange Opinions Please

[saladin]

Hello All,
Here is the second spange I have been offered on the internet this week.
Again I need to rely on your expertise to give me a steer on good or dud.

In my attempt to learn I automatically suspect something is s dud and then attempt to prove to myself if it is good.
Okay this spange,
I have come to two conclusions comparing the spange with examples from Jon and Flemming (Nice collections)
The detail on the front displays typing of both the first issue and second.
The scales on the foot and claw look detailed enough to be a first type as do the uneven wing feathers.
But the detail on the rows of feathers on the chest and wings look to be like a second issue.
The date bar is straight indicating it should be a second issue but the number 3 looks too thin as though from a first issue.

Now to the back: a fairly weak struck l/12 rather than L/12 and what look to be overly thick prongs.

My first conclusion it could be an intermediate spange
Second this is a nice high quality fake

Help appreciated
All the best
Doug

[streptile]

I think you will need better photos to settle this one.

It is a 2. Form Juncker.

Whether it's genuine or not is the big question.

I would say a side photo like this would be of great interest:


Pic borrowed

Also very important:

• Accurate weight in grams
• Good photo of L/12 mark

If it's good, it's very valuable.

[tinmantis]

nice pics Strep!
I agree, better side pics from Doug would be nice

but
"Second this is a nice high quality fake"
I agree, I don't like these

regards
jon

[saladin]

Thanks Strep and Jon for your input.

I will try to get some better quality pictures from the seller

All the best
Doug

[Bob Hritz]

Doug,

You don't want that spange.

Look for one that looks like this on the verso.

Bob Hritz

[saladin]

Thank you Bob for your informed opinion and posting the picture. It goes a long way to showing me what I should be looking out for.
Jon and Streps pictures were excellent and with all 3 inputs I think(?) I might know what I am doing and what I should be looking for.
All the best
Doug

[Douglas 5]

Hi Doug :
Just came across this post . I have been collecting good and bad L/12 marks in general .

Yours is deffinately a bad L/12 mark .... one that has been around at least since 2005 ... maybe even longer .

A member here had posted a fake Juncker with this mark some years back ... I did not save the name of the person posting it .
The Spange that had this mark was not a Juncker . Yours looks very simmular to that one which is posted below . One does find original awords with added fake markings to boost value or sale-abilty .
I am not good in identifying Spangen at all , others will give you a reliable ' Yes or No ' on that . Just comparing the 2 my gut feeling is - that yours may be an improved die from the one below ?????

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

The fake Spange this is on :

[Douglas 5]

More :

[saladin]

Douglas,
Thank you for the pictures. They were excellent and I am sure they spange I was offered is an exact same example as the one you have above.
I think I am armed enough now to be able to spot a good from a dud L/12...lets hope I can find one.
I am off to a small fair here in Brecon tomorrow so one might surface!.....
All the best
Doug

[Douglas 5]

A word of caution still .... Juncker Spangen are probably the most faked Spangen around ... some from - very obvious - to some realy good ones .
A quick count I just made indicated 8 or 9 different fake Juncker Spangen circulating out there .

Douglas

[streptile]

Hi Douglas,

An interesting fake Spange you show there. I saw this one, or one identical to it, at the SOS. In hand the detail was appalling. I don't know if it was marked:

[tinmantis]

L/12 second pattern spangen are extremely rare, 99.9% being fake
L/12 1st pattern are surprisingly common
I once saw a 2nd pattern with a filed datebox to make it look like a 1st pattern to boost value... what an uneducated mistake, what a shame!
regards
jon