Oakleaves Swords and Diamonds

[W. C. Stump]

My apologies, Godet did manufacture the first few examples and Tiffany added the Diamonds subsequent to the manufacture. I have also checked the "Soldat" site and noted that all their copies are manufactured or stamped "930" for silver content. You will see that my set are stamped "935" as were the original Klein pieces.

24141

The Tiffany story is a fairy tale. Godet was a premier jeweler in their own right and more than capable of setting stones. I don't know where the Tiffany tale started, but I have never seen any verifiable proof that they set diamonds for Godet. None of the silver 1st Types or 2nd Types were marked "935", only "925".

[MGN]

IMHO I wouldn't put this piece into my collection, detail and quality are not perfect,

Michael

[Brian S]

That's always bothered me too. We're talking about drilling holes and setting stones, not creating unique pieces. I think Fairy Tale is correct.

[24141]

WC Stump. The Tiffany's information comes from Gordon Williamson's book page 422. As to the "935" I am referring to pieces by Klein not Godet.

24141

[Brian S]

Gordon does some pretty good research, if that's what it is... It just seems so unlikely.

[W. C. Stump]

WC Stump. The Tiffany's information comes from Gordon Williamson's book page 422. As to the "935" I am referring to pieces by Klein not Godet.

24141

While I rank my friend a serious researcher, and I can't speak for him, I personally think he is merely relating the "Tiffany Story" that has been around for many years. He also doesn't give any factual basis for his opinion. The Godet only made the silver 1st set, no silver 2nd set.

[Biro]

You're not exactly 'overburdening' us with information here, 24141!!

Consider how it looks so far......

We are talking about the Oakleaves with Swords and Diamonds...

From the 'tone' of your brief posts, you obviously consider there is a possibility that these are 'real', or you wouldn't be asking...

If that is the case, then you will also be researched enough to know of the incredible rarity of such sets, and subsequently, why they should have cost you many many thousands of pounds.

If you purchased them either directly from a Vet or a VERY respectable dealer, and with provenance, then you probably have a case regarding their authenticity......(historically, these don't tend to 'slip through the fingers..' as such.....)

If not, and you still seriously feel you might be sitting on a genuine set, you will probably want to find a better way of seeking authentication on them than..............
" I recently acquired this piece and would be grateful for all and any comments on its authenticity (or not)..."

Sorry, I would like nothing more than to know you had 'stumbled' on a genuine set - but I for one can't take this seriously until you elaborate 'just a little' on where they came from, and why you might possibly think them authentic....

It's INCREDIBLY relevant...finding no similar fakes or repro's is not enough..


Marshall

[24141]

Mr Stump, Gordon Williamson states it as a fact (not conjecture) that the diamonds were set by Tiffany's, however according to you, what he is stating is a "Fairy Tale". If I assume you to be correct why should I believe anything else in Mr. Williamson's book? This is not intended to be facetious, this is a comment from someone who spent a good deal of money on his book the facts of which you are now putting in doubt.

24141

[Alexander Zöller]

Mr Stump, Gordon Williamson states it as a fact (not conjecture) that the diamonds were set by Tiffany's, however according to you, what he is stating is a "Fairy Tale". If I assume you to be correct why should I believe anything else in Mr. Williamson's book?

Because Gordon Williamson may be wrong on this single detail (or just have related the Tiffany tale, as Mr Stump has suggested). That doesn't affect the veracity and excellent research of the other information contained in Gordon's book, of course.

24141, I'm curious if after having read the many posts that have expressed doubts re: the originality of your diamonds, do you still believe them to be original?

[Gordon Williamson]

The Tiffany story is a fairy tale. Godet was a premier jeweler in their own right and more than capable of setting stones. I don't know where the Tiffany tale started, but I have never seen any verifiable proof that they set diamonds for Godet. None of the silver 1st Types or 2nd Types were marked "935", only "925".

If as Bill suggests,the Tiffany connection is a "fairy story", I would be interested to hear of any evidence that Godet wholly manufactured the first type clasps, to include the diamond setting.

Much of what is accepted today in fact has little or no documented written evidence. (i.e. where is the proof that the Juncker RK dies were destroyed in the bombing raids in 1944, something generally believed and which gives people the confidence that their textbook Juncker RK with cross hatching to the frame must therefore be "safe"). If we were to discount everything for which there was no concrete documented evidence there would be very little we could trust.

The fact is that the Tiffany connection for the first type diamond sets is something that has always been generally accepted by advanced collectors in Europe. In fact I have even heard it from Ritterkreuzträger who took pleasure in a German firm (Klein) producing a better quality item than the great Tiffany.

To quote from Harald Geissler's standard work "Das Eiserne Kreuz" ..."Die Verarbeitung ist bei diesem Stück ebenfalls sehr exakt von der Juwelierfirma Tiffany ausgeführt worden".

If there is evidence out there to prove that Tiffany had no connection with these first few sets, I'll have the text ammended in future editions, otherwise, it'll stay.

The diamonds belonging to Hermann Graf as illustrated on Page 366 of "The Iron Time" are clearly marked "935", not "925".

[Brian S]

The fact that a great researcher like Harald Geissleräs has compared the work of Tiffany and the diamond settings gives the Fairy Tale some strong legs. You have to admit it's just strange that given all the other abilities of Godet that they'd go outside their own walls. But I'm sure Harald Geissleräs and you already considered that. If you can't do it yourself correctly, you don't want to get caught in a mess doing it at all, farm it out.

[W. C. Stump]

Mr Stump, Gordon Williamson states it as a fact (not conjecture) that the diamonds were set by Tiffany's, however according to you, what he is stating is a "Fairy Tale". If I assume you to be correct why should I believe anything else in Mr. Williamson's book? This is not intended to be facetious, this is a comment from someone who spent a good deal of money on his book the facts of which you are now putting in doubt.

24141

Sir remember that NO book is perfect, save one. That is the GOOD BOOK, the Holy Bible. Gordon's book is one of the best written on the 1939 Iron Cross. However, he is wrong, in my opinion, as anyone else who thinks Tiffany set the diamonds for Godet. There is NO factual documentation to back up this "Fairy Tale" that has been told and retold now for over 40 years to my knowledge.

As per your reproduction it is just that, an ILLUSION. It is a post war fake, nothing more. I once owned one of the original 1st types that belonged to Werner Molder and I assure you that your example doesn't come close to being an original 1st type.

[J Howland]

Purely as a matter of curiousity: while I realize that there was still about a half year to go after the OL/S/D came into existence before America came into the war, why - with the world wholesale center of diamonds (the Netherlands) in the hands of the Wehrmacht - would the Germans have contracted for diamond "work" to be performed half-way around the world at Tiffany's?

It would be interesting to discover if Tiffany had any branch stores in Europe inh the late 1930's. If not, I can't believe that Dr. Doehle and his crew would have subcontracted such work to an American company, no matter how widespread its reputation had been since end of the nineteenth century..

Just a thought,

Jim

[Dave Kane]

Here's another RARE set from Ebay.de that cab be had for less than 100eu!!

[Dave Kane]

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