4 EK II's. No MM.

[Enclave]

Hello, recently I've got four EK II's with no mintmarks. Maybe You could tell the Makers of some crosses.
1.




2.




3. Not so beautifully made as previous two.




4. Loose core, just keeps moving inside. (I know that's a defect )

[Bernie Brule]

I believe number 2 is a Klein & Quenzer mm 65.

I'm very interested in hearing the comments on number 4.

[Douglas 5]

Hi :
1 and 4 are unmarked regular S&L's . 2 has a S&L frame but not a S&L core .. so I would say a S&L parts supplied to another maker . 3 has a wide frame ... not sure .

Douglas

[Enclave]

In my opinion cross no. 4 is damaged. It gives the impression if someone ''used a can opener on that place" .

[Bernie Brule]

It appears the swastika on number 4 is too large for the frame. A RK cut down core?

[streptile]

It appears the swastika on number 4 is too large for the frame. A RK cut down core?

Hi Bernie,
I have never heard of this practice.

Your crosses are:

1. S&L 4 or Standard Design
2. Meybauer 7
3. Unknown (to me)
4. S&L 4 or Standard Design

[Douglas 5]

A more unusual #4 you have there - Bernie . It is not a cut down RK core , but what I call a UB core and had shown that one here in a special thread befor . It hapens to be in an early thick version Fritz Zimmermann frame cross I have . The corner does not stand out/up like yours as they were smart enough to file the inside corners down first to make it fit . The swastika itself is made a bit larger . Your example is important as I see this indicates the originating owner of the core ... which would be S&L .
I would like to now about that cross #4 ..... Is it thicker than a normal EK2 or not ??
The picture below shows 3 F zimmermann crosses : I own the ones on the outsides and there taken at the same scale . The one in the middle belongs to Robert and not exactly to scale . The one on the right has the same core as yours .

Douglas

[Enclave]

The thickness compared to no1 is the same.

[Bernie Brule]

The cross is, unfortunately, not mine.

I wonder if it would be possible to get a photo of that cross in the same scale as your photos. I still think that the cross on it is larger than normal - or the frame is smaller than normal. As you can see in this photo, the cross extends into the frame much more than in Douglas' photo #3.

[Douglas 5]

Well Bernie ...... the frame on yours is a regular S&L size frame . The core has slid down - as one can see the gap to the inside right corner . All corners filed back on your EK would fit the same as on mine - #3 .
Comparing 2 independently taken pictures is not easy and the odd time you might get a somewhat close scale comparison . Resolution and distortion being the problem you have to 'manipulate' the picture/scale to make them look the same . Taking one picture with both or more crosses is the only way to have a scale correct comparison .
Below are 3 of the 4 crosses I have with the same size larger Swastika - but different frame sizes - taken to scale ! A very noticable size variation in the frame layout in contrast to the size matching Swastikas ( design varies only ) !
Far left -Godet EK1 - frame and Swastika fit perfectly ... the center one - the thick F Zimmerman , the frame layout is smaler - so all the corners had to be filed down for the core to fit . The far right cross has a bit too large frame setup as where with the filed 3 corners only - there is lots of extra room .

Douglas

[Enclave]

I will post the photos later with other crosses.
With which cross should I compare mine no4?

[Douglas 5]

Sorry Enclave : I noticed now I used the wrong name in my last post - they are yours and not Bernie's . In post 10 the center cross only has the same core as your #4 , ... and interesting enough with your S&L cross #4 it appears now S&L supplied Fritz Zimmerman with the same core .

Douglas

[Bernie Brule]

I'll take your word for it Douglas. I don't know if I would have bought it though seeing that "flaw".

It is a very interesting cross nonetheless.

[Enclave]

No 1 No 2 No 4 No 3

[Bernie Brule]

Douglas was right in that the swastikas are the same size as indicated by the red lines. The reason for the overlap is that the gap shown by the yellow lines is smaller on cross #4. Now why would this be? Is this a manufacturer difference?