Original EK1 L/14 Spange?

[John T]

Tooling for reverse fittings-

I have examined the reverse hinge and catch as well as the pin on both the clasp and the u-boat badge under high magnification and I can say that they have the same tooling marks and appear to have been made on the same machinery.

Best,

J

[John T]

Studying the pictures...I notice that this type of low relief crisp lettering is characteristic of both pieces..

J

[tinmantis]

do you have an L/11 spange to compare obverse?
regards
jon

[John T]

Hi Jon-

I do not doubt that the front looks like a Deumer. Could not Deumer being a larger maker have had sold a die to Orth with Orth then producing the reverse die and then producing a limited run with production ceasing for reasons unknown to us?

The uniformity of the fittings down to the crimp markings is uncanny.

[tinmantis]

anything's possible

L/17 stamped L/13s as their own
L/56 also mm'd L/13s

here's 2 ek2s to throw into the discussion (with an open, and closed '4' numeral)

[kriztof]

Well gent's for me this is a put together piece. Judging from the condition of the pin/hinge/catch it doesn't compare with the condition of the spange.
The pin assembly has remnants of frosting, the back of the spange has none, not even a trace of frosting. The pin setup is probably good, maybe used from another award.

If you look at the little mark/hole on the reverse of the spange where the pin stops, you can see clearly fresh shiny material as if the pin stop was rubbing against it, yet the pin itself is Black not shiny. Even the shape of the stop doesn't match the pin.

There is also the uneven date box, the rough/uneven cut of the wreath and the dissimilar size of the feet (from the reverse)
These are all signs that normally would sound the alarm.

I guess there are many explanations for the existence of this one but equally as many to dismiss it as bad.
I would like to say that I feel this one is good but from what I see I have to stick with my original decission of it being bad.

Chris

[John T]

HI Jon and Chris thank you guys for your comments.

Jon, thank you for those pictures of the fakes that I believe are attributed to Floch along with other L/14 marked pieces. The font is different on the closed "4" set but yes I do know that a different font could have been done for each design. I have found that when the pieces attributed to Floch have come onto the market they have been found in quantity whereas I have not yet seen another of this example, so this for now interests me and perhaps one day more will become known.

Chris, thank you for your photo-study. You have some good points. I would like to add though that on zinc pieces the metal for the hinge, catch pin and even the solder are superior than the zinc (or should I say the way that the finish is applied to the zinc with out a sealer such as copper plated over the zinc before the final plating is applied) and it is not unusual to see the pin assembly retaining a strong finish while the badge itself has a faded or no finish.

Yes, I know I am sounding like a proponent of the badge, but, I myself would like to get to the truth of this piece be it good or bad it is all the same to me but I have a need to know what the story is about this curious example and I want to thank you fellows for your insight and valued opinions.

Kindest Regards,

John

[tinmantis]

indeed this is an interesting piece
a new fake? or a very rare spange that could cause alot of rethinking?

I've also seen that kind of frosting difference on pins and zinc pieces myself, all original

To be honest, it scares me, fake or real!
Out of the thousands of spangen I've seen and studied, I've not seen another like this
I'd hang on to it, and wait and see...
regards
jon

[John T]

A curiosity for now...

Jon-

I concur with the above....let us adopt a wait and see attitude...and let us see if more turn up that can be studied....surely there are more out there be they good or bad,

Best,

John