Thick R3 EK2 with a 3rd core die !

[Douglas 5]

It was only due to chance comparing different thick R3s that I discovered a core with the same front but where 2 different back dies were used ! Something in theory that might exist and had not found until now !
Only recently I had started to include closeups of the reverse core in comparisons .
As a few weeks back the existance of 2 cores was brought up and shown here I then did not pay much attention to the reverse side .
I have done up a chart showing all 3 very destinct reverse core dies .... to which I can only identify 2 front dies . At the same time I noticed a difference in the frame beading appearance .
In the montage I gave my thoughts about this ,.... In the chart I used numbers for reference only and they have no other meaning . There are not that many around ... so members I would ask those who have one to have a look .
Interesting to see if we realy only have 2 front core dies or 3 ??? And additionaly how many front and reverse core die combinations we might come up with !!

Note this is for the thick version only ... I have not looked at the thin version... does something simular exist ???

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Comparing my own ... I have a frame/beading and core die variation to the above chart . Core front and back die ... number 3 but with the thin well spaced beading of number 2 frame !!!
I conclude from this more than one core was being used at the same time .
Any help with this is much appreciated !
The front :

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

And the full reverse :

Douglas

[Roglebk]

Hi Douglas, here's some pics of R3 cores, have closeups of reverse too if you need.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=378027

Found it very helpful to do pics of numbers from an angle too. Makes it easier to see similarities/differencies on them. Pics in the same lightning/angle is a must, light does makes tricks to the eye. Very tricky to draw conclusions from pics made by different photograpers.

[Roglebk]

reverse of R3 Thick.

[Douglas 5]

Nice closeup - Carl .
That is the same reverse as on mine . And would like to see the front date and what frame beading it is with .
From the number positioning there are 3 seperate reverse dies used . The front I am not sure if there are 3 - would be nice but do not think so . The pictures are not that good .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

The samples shown in the link do not show any of the 1813 dates and at that time did not notice a 3rd reverse core die .

Douglas

[HuD]

Douglas, Carl, here you have mine for comparison. Is it always the same die?
Stefano

[Douglas 5]

Thanks Stefano : ... yours matches the a front and 3 back and the wide bead frame ....so # 3 completely . Mine has the same core but not the same frame .

Douglas

[Adrian]

I'm fairly sure mine must have the type #1 obverse and type #3 reverse.

[Wik]

Interesting stuff Douglas.

Here is my round 3 thick frame for inspection.

[Wik]

Here is a pair of picks on an angle as Carl suggested. These are older and weren't in as good of light but still show the dates pretty well I think

[Douglas 5]

This is excelent !!
Indeed a very interesting core and frame variations that have existed all along but have not been identified - as the front or obverse of a cross is used mainly and is adiquit for identification usualy .
No matter which maker - there are always things that will go wrong . I read from the different core dies , they may had problems with them .
Front - back die combination are 6 possible . And #3 has a re-work die - the even wider bead crown . ... to which we have 2 combinations already .
If I could ask Adrian and MN for your opinion on - how many front core dies you can identify . there are 3 reverse dies .
I can see Adria has a thin bead frame as MN has the re-worked wider bead frame .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Any more ??

Douglas

[fabri-online]

Hi Douglas

here my Thick R3 EKII