RK MAPPE KC Award document Frieda Tiersch FAKES?

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Dear Forum,

I am looking to acquire a KC award document in folder. But before actually purchasing one, I would like to know if anyone has come accross any reproduced ones (both of the Frieda Tiersch marked folder as of the actual gold lettered document). Seeing what these items sell for, it seems only logical that someone out there would be interested in reproducing them. If anyone has actually seen any, can you please let me know of any significant details that mark out the fake ones from the real ones. If this discussion has already taken place on the forum I appologize. I am new to the forum.

Cheers, Willem

[InfanterieSammler]

Willem,

My advice would be to go to a few of the major shows and handle original examples from Weitze or Niemann. Once you've handled an original, you should not be fooled by one of those made-to-order Mappe/Urkunde sets.

I would also buy a few reference books - Dietrich Maerz, Gordon Williamson, and Stephen Previtera all have good info and photos of original Mappe/Urkunden.

It might also help to have EUR 10.000 - 20.000 at your disposal.

Best,
John

[all1knew]

Hello there,

Just be sure to put items up for review even after you've done your research. It is always better to be safe.

William Kramer

[kaiserwilhelm2]

I have had a look at various original ones and own all the books refered to in a previous reply. In general I tend to do my homework. I am pretty sure I will not be buying any cheap, ready to order fakes. The question is: are there any serious fakes out there. As these pieces are changing hands at 10-20 K it is worth to put in a serious effort to really make top of the line reproductions - make ten and you are 100000 USD or Euro's ahead. That is serious money. So has anyone encountered any serious efforts to reproduce these KC award documents or is the golden rule still if it looks the part it's a genuine item?

[Jon. H]

Some small shot's of a FAKE Ritterkreuz mappe with document,

rk.jpg

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457013[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457014[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457015[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457016[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457017[/ATTACH]

[Jon. H]

[ATTACH]1457018[/ATTACH]

[Jeff V]

Of course there are very good fakes. Do a search for Detlev, Kai Winklers dad and the Conrath document. A big scam by the above mentioned individuals on George Peterson.
best wishes,
jeff

[nick-j]

I couldnt find anything on this but have seen conraths mappe atributed to george peterson in "the iron cross of1939"-what was the story(or a link)? thanks Nick

[tinmantis]

me too, I was interested to see a thread...
regards
jon

[Jeff V]

I searched for the thread and it seems to have disappeared. The truth has not been deleted however. Kai Winklers dad forged near perfect examples of these documents. I beleive the fake Conrath doc was placed in an original folder. Detlev then sold the fake doc to George Peterson. Later George found out it was a fake and sought his money back from Detlev. After a long time and a hell of a lot of effort George got his money back or part of it at least. Anyway, I am sure this doc was not the only one that these guys forged.
best wishes,
jeff