S&l ??

[AlikN]

... I believe the down-tail was the FIRST die..

Here is something, ...most of early SCiG and SCiS are made of real silver and silver content marked.

[Robin Lumsden]

There are many people on this forum with a very in-depth knowledge of the Iron Cross and all the die types, award regulations, etc.

It would be great if some of them could also give their opinions.

There are a lot on unanswered questions posed by these items..........apparently early RKs on a very late board, swords which shouldn't have been worn (presented or bought) being worn, the SC anomalies, etc. etc.

Are there rational explanations for these?

Or do they mean that some of the die flaw etc. theories (that have come to be accepted over the years) actually wrong?

[Giel VW]

Looks like someone liked the S&L DKiS for $4k+

And there go the oaks!

[Leroy]

I'm 100% with Robin here. These boards (whether put together pre- or post-May, 1945) present very many of the combat awards of the TR. These things are discussed every day here on this Forum, and with intensity. Yet there are few comments being made now.........

Tom- Have you had a chance to see the backs of the CCC's yet? I think you said from your first look at the front of this board that the bronze was an S&L, the silver a GWL and the gold an FLL. Any updates on that?

I realize that it is difficult to reach, on the other badges, any definitive conclusion without seeing the backs. Are there any preliminary thoughts after seeing the fronts? How about the glider badge on the "Luftwaffe board"? A pretty good close-up of that is available on the "emedals" site (in the "board segments" section to the right of the main board photo).Robin provided a link to the site in the post which started this thread. Others are there, too, including a retired pilot. If these don't match the customarily "recognized" fronts, these should raise some questions. So far, nothing.......

To me, the Luft badges (especially the flight clasps) look fine.

Here's the link again: http://www.emedals.ca/catalog.asp?newitems

[Steinar]

I do not think these are souvenirs made for vets etc post war. No way, whats the point?
I have no idea about the point with these boards, but perhaps S&L or someone made these boards for display in a shop/ at the factory etc. And perhaps the oaks are just made by S&L just for fun? or are these oaks typical post war oaks/swords?
The awards seems to be very correct, and these KCs are beautiful.
But are they produced early or late war time?

Did other companies have boards like these as well?

[Darrell]

Or do they mean that some of the die flaw etc. theories (that have come to be accepted over the years) actually wrong?

That's what maybe really troublesome to people Robin

[Dietrich Maerz]

Or do they mean that some of the die flaw etc. theories (that have come to be accepted over the years) actually wrong?

Only if one takes the card boards as gospel evidence and throws all the proven recipients with early A-Types out of the window.
This would surely please some dealers but more clear thinking collectors take all evidence (especially the ones coming from the recipients) into consideration. The more so when we know when a recipient got his cross and we don't know when the board was made.

I have no idea why or when the A-type made it to the card board. If it is an A-Type ( and I don't doubt that) then the only thing I can say with utmost confidence is:
"There is an A-Type on that card board."

Maybe the board was 'started' in 1940 and items were added over the years? We can guess till the cows come home....

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks Dietrich.

Do you have any opinions on how von Manteuffel came to be wearing the elongated swords if they were not an officially awarded set and couldn't (officially) be bought?

I'm a bit puzzled by that.

However, as you know, I'm not an expert on the swords.

[Robin Lumsden]

On a different tack..............

I always understood that the Guerrilla Warfare Badge was made by companies in Berlin (Juncker) and Gablonz (AGMuK), not Ludenscheid.

Maybe this is something else that the boards will throw into question.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Robin,

I have no idea. But I would venture that a von Manteuffel could get a second and third set in Berlin or wherever - if he wanted to. It is also clear that neither I nor anybody else has a list of all types of swords awarded (or oaks). Could it be that the PKZ gave out some Juncker, S&L or other pieces after those were sent to the PKZ after the prohibition? Sure!
However, he got his swords relatively late so that might not be the case here.

All we can say is that regarding the paper trail and the overwhelming statistics the huge majority (actually all known to me) of awarded oaks and swords are Godet.

Dietrich

[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks Dietrich.

[Leroy]

Because these boards contain the full gamut of TR awards, from early to late, all organized by service branch and/or category, it makes sense to me that they were put together at the same time (WHENEVER that was), as opposed to being assembled over a period which ran from early war to late war. The metals appear to be both zink and tombak, mixed on the same page.

If these boards were, in fact, put together at one time (whether pre- or post May, 1945), I do not understand why there is such an abundance of early type "A" crosses. This is even more mystifying when I factor in Dave-B's separate find, a couple of years ago, of three of the exact same type crosses, complete with a set of the same"elongated" swords. The existence of the SK's, all marked with the PKZ number "4" (including the down-tail version in gold w/o swords) (which would surely, if real, be an early piece supposedly not having that number) is also confusing.

This is why we need to determine the originality of all the pieces.

[Robin Lumsden]

The existence of the SK's, all marked with the PKZ number "4" (including the down-tail version in gold w/o swords) (which would surely, if real, be an early piece supposedly not having that number) is also confusing.

Good point.

[Rich G]

On a different tack..............

I always understood that the Guerrilla Warfare Badge was made by companies in Berlin (Juncker) and Gablonz (AGMuK), not Ludenscheid.

Maybe this is something else that the boards will throw into question.

Robin

What are you basing that on? Maker marked examples?

Rich

[Robin Lumsden]

What are you basing that on? Maker marked examples?

Based just on what I've read on this and other Forums.

Looks like it could be another 'theory' for blowing apart.