Ebay L/12 O&S - Hard to believe....

[Dietrich Maerz]

... and I doubt Niemann would sell it for EUR 9000.–!

You are right Ludwig! He tried to sell them for over $ 21,000.-!

[Wotan]

IMO both sets (EBAY a n d Detlev´s) are crap. Please look at the fotos in the famous books f.e. Gordons book: The swords of the Junckers OLS are much thinner than the "Dolche" pictured in this thread. By the way: Junckers OLS sets were only for private purchase.

[Leroy]

But then the one Niemann wanted to sell is the same fake! Look at the dots and the dot arrangement.

Dietrich

It is clear from these photos, I believe, that Detlev's set is not the same as the one posted by Peter or the one on eBay (the latter 2 appearing to be different generations from the same fake source), although it's certainly close. Where does that leave Detlev's? And, again, does anyone see any similarity between Detlev's and the "unofficial set" being worn by Oesau? I'm NOT saying Detlev's set is real (I don't know and it doesn't look like the Oakleaves which have been attributed to Juncker by some in the past). Just looking for educated opinions.
Leroy

[Montgomery Burns]

wel i reed this ,,and look at the pictures,,,

amaisement about how easy jou people make an expertise

but what flawles upiniun can jou make from compairing these pictures,,???

taken in compleet different conditions,,,???

light ,distands colloring ,schadows ,all different .???
and there so close looking a like

remember jou condamned or confirm high priced items only by this ,,

and never laid them two items next to echother to compaire in identical conditions


I just wondering how easy jou deare to ,,,

pictures are so easaly misleading even the best........
thats the first and best lesson i have learnd in this hobby,,,,,
its the first lesson i think off looking at enny picture off ennything....
always knowing,, that the final proof wil come holding it in joure hand.

maybe aim just an idio..... but ,,,

i hade to say this..

regards kay

[Leroy]

Kay,
I agree with you that pictures are a VERY dangerous way to make judgments!
From these pictures, however, we can at least see (from the pattern of dots on the hilts) that the "Detlev" set is not the same as the others. Beyond that, it is hard.....Are there very good photos of "unofficial sets " (other than Oesau's) being worn? THAT's what we need to see.
Leroy

[Dietrich Maerz]

No matter what, a bider with the name of a***a thinks the set is worth € 8,950.- (= $ 13,150.-). And that is the state of affairs!

[Leroy]

No matter what, a bider with the name of a***a thinks the set is worth € 8,950.- (= $ 13,150.-). And that is the state of affairs!

I think I would rather have a nice Zimmermann!

[rkdek]

The same seller offered this Oakleaves set on eBay last week for a bid-now price of 6000 euros. The auction was ended early.

[rkdek]

pic 2

[rkdek]

pic 3

[Flemming]

how come people is willing to pay so much money on items showed with such bad pictures?

I really do not get it

/Flemming

[Peter Wiking]

Kay
The photos is what we collectors often have to judge from. We have only the photos in this sale. Thats what we have. Nothing more except a Certificate of Authenticity which i do not have any faith in.

The cross guards are in the seller photo level with the horizon and this is how the set should be worn. It is however not possible with this set. The center point were the sword cross each other is clearly off set from the center point of the loop.

We can see that the loop is at an angle in the photo and when straighten up, the same cross guards will no longer we level with the horizon. Which of it should be sacrificed?

Apart from the problems described above i find the sword details blurred and i find the soldering, where the to swords cross each other, to be of less quality.

Peter

[Dietrich Maerz]

Maybe Mr. Niemann has a comment to make?

Edit: Since Mr. Niemann was reading this morning and did not make a comment regarding the COA in the Ebay auction we can assume that the expertise is correct. The seller also mentions that Niemann can be called via phone and I would think that a seller with a forged expertise would not go that far!

It might very well be that Juncker made the oaks and the swords - it is even very likely. The price Niemann attaches to this set (which is a lot lower than he did the last time) is also not a factor regarding authenticity but rather his own opinion.

What is puzzling, however, is the multitude of variations of the Juncker oaks and okas with swords - even from one and the same dealer. I can't hardly wait to see what variation is in the new price guide! The fact that Niemann issues COAs about these medals makes me think that he knows which model is the genuine one. Something I could not verify with so called 'advanced collectors'.
At any rate, they will always be on the same level as the pre-May 45 made examples from S&L .... unofficial shop samples at best!

[Peter Wiking]

Which one is original? Denis posted a 21 marked piece, and as i understand, from the same seller of the L/12 marked piece with swords. Are both original? None of them? They are both from the same dies/moulds. There is no doubt about that.

Peter

[Peter Wiking]

Being marked 21 means that it should be a Godet. This is surely not a pre May 1945 Godet.

Peter