KVK I in case HELP please??

[preclik]

Good day all,
please can you tell me to first look your opinion to this cross becouse I have only this foto.
Thank you PRECLIK

[Mathias1703]

It´s a good one....

[preclik]

OK thank you

[Frank K]

I'm with Mathias. Looks like a good mm L/11 Wilhelm Deumer cross.

[Robert P.]

I'm with Mathias. Looks like a good mm L/11 Wilhelm Deumer cross.

I disagree. I believe it's a typical '43'. The pin is too wide and straight for a Deumer, and the hilts are wrong. Here is a Deumer to compare...

Robert

[Robert P.]

and the '43'...

[Frank K]

I disagree. I believe it's a typical '43'. The pin is too wide and straight for a Deumer, and the hilts are wrong. Here is a Deumer to compare...

Robert

No problem Robert. Just one question, how do you match the sword hilts on your 43 with the hilts on proeclik's cross?

Looking forward to your answer

[Robert P.]

No problem Robert. Just one question, how do you match the sword hilts on your 43 with the hilts on proeclik's cross?

Looking forward to your answer

Or the hilts on the Deumer? I see more of a '43' than a Deumer in this cross. I'm thinking there may be another maker besides Deumer and '43' that has similar hardware. I don't know of another die made by '43', OR a wide pointed pin by Deumer. I'm searching though.

Robert

[Robert P.]

Please compare to the Deumer, right...

Robert

[Robert P.]

No problem Robert. Just one question, how do you match the sword hilts on your 43 with the hilts on proeclik's cross?

Looking forward to your answer

Yeah Frank,

The hilts are different. And my files are not adequate enough to prove this out. I'm torn between both, the hilts and the pins.

Robert

[Frank K]

I see your point Robert but compared from the reverse there's imo a lot more similarity to the L/11 than the 43.....

I've seen both type of pins, the 43 style pin and the narrower pin like yours, on marked L/11's on the e-stand and on dealer sites. The majority have the narrow style pin but a good number have the 43 style pin.

I'll not conclude anything but imo they're both L/11's.

If there's a third maker with similar hardware, maybe? On the other hand although 43 Julius Bauer is not from Lüdenscheid there could be some exchange of parts, who knows?

The picture below is just to make an illustration. 43 on top and L/11 below. Thanks Denis.

[Robert P.]

A good topic. I'd like to have them all in hand to analyze/compare every detail. I've gathered a list of all KVKI's and II's, but still have only been able to find about half of the crosses on the list off of various forums and sites. No sense splitting hairs over this cross. From what we have so far, I think we have enough to say that it's an original piece. You've brought out some good points.

Robert

[Frank K]

No sense splitting hairs over this cross. From what we have so far, I think we have enough to say that it's an original piece...

Absolutely Robert. The original question was whether the cross was good or not and I agree with you.

On other hand I believe this has been discussed before and I don't recall a final conclusion. Must admit I'm just as curious as you if it's 43, L/11 or perhaps a third maker who's behind. Could be interesting to find out.

[franki]

Hello Gents,

the discussed first depicted cross by Preclik is for a Deumer cross.
The Deumer cross can you encounter from time to time with the broad pin.

Against Bauer speaks the jacked hilt. All Bauer crosse which I have ever seen
have had the straight edged hilt.

Best Franki