Vaulted Zimmermann?

[mvm71]

Looking for our EK experts on the two pictures provided. Looks like a Zimmermann to me, described as "factory vaulted" by Gailen. Nice looking cross, just need some opinions.

Thank you,
Mike

[mvm71]

front photo of cross, nice crisp details.......

[zambrotta11]

I can't help you much with the vaulting issue but I do know this is an early Deumer.

Regards,
Stephen

[R. Schmitt]

I agree - early Deumer, but I have to disagree on the fact that this is supposed to be a factory vaulted piece - as far as I know, the vaulting was forbidden by LDO guidelines, no?
Here's my (hand) vaulted Deumer with copper plated iron core - you can tell it's an early Deumer by the angle under the pin (round unlike the 90 degree angle the Godets and Zimmermanns) and the missing lines on the hinge block...
KR
Rainer

[mvm71]

Yes, correct on the maker. As always great feedback!

Thank you,
Mike

[R. Schmitt]

This thread should help, too - Zimmermann vs Godet vs Deumer
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...det+Zimmermann

[Bob Hritz]

This is certainly NOT a factory vaulted badge. No maker is going to leave those crude tool marks on the reverse of the cross. I would find it very hard to believe the vaulting is even wartime.

Bob Hritz

[mvm71]

I believe that vaulted crosses are somewhat curious by nature. One cannot be sure when one was vaulted. I would think that vaulting a already excellent example of a early Deumur EK post-war would be considered a risky adventure at best. Does anyone think a "vaulting faker" would mess with a pristine EK that will hold it's value on it's own without the vaulting. I'm not sure but you never know I guess.

Thanks for all of your opinions,
Mike

[R. Schmitt]

Hard to say, personally, I think it would have been total nonsense to vault a beautiful cross like yours after war ended, but you have to consider that in 1946 for example, people did not keep the TR badges as collectibles as we do today - There may have been reasons for someone (that I don't understand today without knowing the background) to vault that cross after war had ended - If done by someone to sell it for more $$$, it could not have been a smart man IMO.
However - everything's possible, so it is most likely that, because it was often done so by Wehrmacht soldiers, the cross was vaulted by the holder, similar to today's soldiers crimping their hats in a certain way, changing tihe shape that the poor hat did not originally come in. Fashion Victims!
KR
Rainer

[TRAVLRSEASIA]

Vaulted Zimmerman

I would have to agree with Bob; this EK1 does NOT appear to be a factory vaulted piece! The crude nature of the "crimping" so as to "vault" the cross underscore this fact IMO. While it may have been done by somebody with a tool to make it look more professional on the obverse, I sincerely doubt this was done at the factory. As to how rare vaulted crosses are given the LDO restrictions I cannot give statistics obviously, but note I have a factory vaulted cross that is unmarked and shows absolutely no crimping lines to the reverse. Again, the cross is nice in terms of core but I would not purchase it on the merits it was "factory vaulted."

[Steve Campbell]

The minute I saw it I could tell it was not a factory vault job. It's still a nice piece, but if you ask me, early Deumers unmarked are not rare and you should be able to get a good one from the Estand or a connection eventually. Not sure what is being asked, but I wouldn't pay a dealer for one because another is going to appear at no doubt a better price. This is not the first time a Deumer has been sold as a Zimmerman. I have a Deumer in my own collection I bought as a Zimmerman. When I found out I kept it anyway because I liked it. Now I have two. I picked the second on up from the estand for about $180 US.

[mvm71]

Thanks again for the opinions. The EK in question was not sold as a Zimmermann, that was my first opinion on it when I saw it. I am no EK expert for sure.

Steve, keep me in mind if you find ANY EK1's for sale on the e-stand for $180.

I've been looking for a few to go on a few tunics I have but most if not all EK1's in any kind of descent shape are going for at least $250-$350 nowadays on the e-stand. Bargains for EK's are few and far between as far as I have seen.

Always on the hunt for mint EK's!
Mike

[Steve Campbell]

Mike, prices are going up but recently the estand prices have been as bad as dealers prices in some cases. I don't believe the majority of these items sell all the same. If you're looking for mint, then you may pay more, but there are some deals out there still. You just have to keep looking and be in the right place at the right time. I don't have to have all mint or marked crosses in my collection. I like anything that's genuine. Here's an unmarked 65 K&Q I picked up for $150 all in to my door on the estamd before Xmas. It's certainly not mint but it's an honest cross with some character. Come on, what can you get for $150?

[Steve Campbell]

Here's that Deumer I mentioned for $180.

[Steve Campbell]

I got this nice early Meybauer for $189 all in. All of the 3 crosses I have shown here were Estand buys in 2007, that sat unwanted till they dropped so low I couldn't afford not to buy them. Unmarked but undisputably genuine K&Q, Deumer and Meybauer EK1s.