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**Darrell** · 01-11-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by clevischi View Post

Really a nice discussion.
Thank you.

Well, I did come off a little "strong" ... but it's unfounded rumors that do alot of damage in this hobby. I get really upset when opinions become fact.

**Stahlhelm** · 01-11-2008, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Darrell View Post

Well, I did come off a little "strong" ... but it's unfounded rumors that do alot of damage in this hobby. I get really upset when opinions become fact.

I agree 100%! At a recent militaria show, I overheard a discussion/argument a couple of dealers were having over exactly this "dotted" German Cross issue. When pressed to explain why the "dotted" cross was not authentic, the collector espousing this could only say that he believed this because he had read about it in a a forum thread. So, he actually had no knowledge other than that to fuel his very adamant position on the issue. Sometimes opinions become fact simply because they have been written somewhere, and all other checks and balances seem to get lost.

Chris

**Mike P.** · 01-11-2008, 11:17 PM

Dotted DK’s have been questioned and had so much bad press that I bet they will be avoided by many Collectors for years to come. Personally , I hoped the test results from this thread would have closed the case-- http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=dotted <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o

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But as Bob said in Post #13 –<o

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(Quote)<o

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“I am happy to see these results as they reaffirm my personal belief that these are wartime produced Zimmermanns. However, more testing is needed to have a more solid footing for the decision of post-war or wartime. The study is not over yet and I will refrain from any celebration or sadness.”

Bob Hritz<o></o>

**Stahlhelm** · 01-12-2008, 12:19 AM

The really obviously scary thing here is actually a couple of things. First, these "dotted" DKiG's were manufactured so well that a scientific analysis of paint, etc. was required to provide any possible hope for official authentication within the collecting community itself. Again, if these are not good, then we're talking serious fear factor here! Secondly, if (and I do stress IF) the "dotted" type is ever determined to be a fake, then what would happen, hypothetically, if the same fakers who produced this type produced another without the dot pattern. Certainly, it is threads and necessary discussions like these which ironically clue them in on what they need to do improve their fakes. Sadly, there's no real way to discuss such things without feeding the fakers. I wish there was a better way.

Chris

**John H.** · 01-14-2008, 10:24 PM

Opionins and then some

WOW! I would like to thank everyone for their imput on this badge. I appreciate all the help and opionions on this badge.

thanks, John

**Darrell** · 01-14-2008, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by John H. View Post

WOW! I would like to thank everyone for their imput on this badge. I appreciate all the help and opionions on this badge.

thanks, John

I would also think that the market would have been flooded with these by now if they were, in fact, postwar jobbies. Unless of course, the maker is only cranking them out 2 per year just to keep things inconspicuous

**Luftm40** · 01-15-2008, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Stahlhelm View Post

I agree 100%! At a recent militaria show, I overheard a discussion/argument a couple of dealers were having over exactly this "dotted" German Cross issue. When pressed to explain why the "dotted" cross was not authentic, the collector espousing this could only say that he believed this because he had read about it in a a forum thread. So, he actually had no knowledge other than that to fuel his very adamant position on the issue. Sometimes opinions become fact simply because they have been written somewhere, and all other checks and balances seem to get lost.

Chris

This is exactly right. Most collectors are unwilling to take the time needed to actually study something and formulate their own opinion. If an "expert" or alleged expert writes negative or loaded statements in a thread or book...thats it. Gospel has been written. Like handing a gun and ammo to a child and turning your back. People who write about this hobby need to choose their words very carefully to avoid misinterpretation...even in forum threads. YES, the KQ RK thread is a classic example of this phenomenon....

**Robert P.** · 01-15-2008, 11:28 AM

Thank you, everyone, for trying to clear up this dark cloud of unbelief that has overtaken so many for so long. I personally read all of the threads regarding these 'dotted' DK's over the years, and can most assuredly say that I was effected by what I read - to the point of never wanting to own one. I admit, I am still uncertain regarding their originality, and don't know whether I would invest in one even after all of this extensive testing of materials. Just give me a little time, men.

Robert

**Howard Kelley** · 01-15-2008, 11:35 AM

Another dot date...

Here are some photos of a friends DKiG.

Quality of this piece is excellent.

Howard

Attached Files

DSC05258.JPG (178.7 KB, 151 views)

**Howard Kelley** · 01-15-2008, 11:36 AM