Schloss Klessheim....

[Dave Kane]

Hello all! A great deal of awards have been attributed to the castle...cased, mint etc.

Of these original awards found in quantity, does anyone have the cardboard outer cartons commonly found in 'shipped', 'stored' or otherwise..

Or maybe a better question; were the awards found at the castle contained in the outer cartons?

[Leroy]

Bob Hritz is THE expert on the crosses found at Schloss Klessheim and he would probably know.

[Michael Everett]

Cartons

To the best of my knowledge, none of the vet-acquired Schloss pieces had outer cartons. However, a batch of vet-acquired unissued Junker 'Lazy 2' pieces were sold in a California auction in the late '90s and if I remember correctly, they were the only pieces with cartons that may have come from the Schloss. One of these pieces is pictured in Tom Johnson's booty book and is attributed to Jason Burmeister.

The lack of cartons really does not surprise me as the Weitze Russian EK1 Hoard pieces also did not come with outer cartons (approx 300).

My only carton discoveries have been with posthumous award pieces (RK) and direct factory finds as with the Weitze Deschler hoard and some daggers discovered in Solingen with the original Eickhorn 'cartons' to Army and Luftwaffe daggers.

MIKE

[Jason Burmeister]

The only awards with outer cartons I've purchased attributed to the Schloss have been Eagle Orders.

[Bob Hritz]

Jeff Roth and I tracked the Schloss Kleissheim engineers ffrom 1976 to 1984. The Juncker Lazy 2 Knight's Crosses from several of the vets had the outer cartons. Many of the vets disgarded these cartons. Many of the German Crosses were still in the cellophane as were the Knight's Crosses. We only found vet's with Lazy and upright 2 crosses. There were Eagle Orders, Knight's Crosses to the War Merit Cross, Oak Leaves, Oak Leaves and Swords, German Crosses with Diamonds and other medals, in the Kleissheim attic hord. Other Kleissheim vets, that we couldn't find, were tracked successfully by Jqason Burmeister.

Here is a Lazy 2, from a Kleissheim vet, with outer carton and cross in perfect cellophane.

Bob Hritz

[Dietrich Maerz]

Posting this for Jason.

[Dietrich Maerz]

And this one.

[Steinar]

Really nice awards and excellent cases. Thanks for showing. That KC looks like its brand new could we please get some close ups?

[Dave Kane]

Thankyou, all! My gut feeling is that likely a great percentage of the awards stored in the Castle were contained in 'outer cartons' but discarded there and then or very soon afterward...

[Kevin V.]

Thanks for the info and the pics provided! In July I will be visiting the Schloss again.

Thanks
Kevin

[Jeff Nichols]

I have also seen a Schloss Klessheim hoard of about 20 to 25 pieces to include cased oakleafs,DKIG cased in cellophane wrapping,redcross neck order cased , and many eagle orders-all types and other cased medals. Unfortunately none of these items had outer cartons. They are in the hands of the vets nephew since the vet passed away. All in near mint untouched condition...Cheers...Jeff

[Steinar]

just got a question, since no question is ever too stupid....

Im just curious, and Im not being rude or anything here, ok? but whats the big deal about these paper cartons? Its not hard to imagine why these are so rare, since these paper cartons was considered to be garbage 63+/- years ago... because its was just protecting the case wasn't it?

its like a bottle of beer, you throw the bottle once its empty, but if you save it and store it for the next 60 years its probably a rare object but I still wouldn't pay $100 for that bottle 60 years from now... if you get me..

I guess its for the people thats very interested in rare and simple objects, down to the last detail

please, no angry comments in return

[Jørgen E]

I guess a MINT RK with case isn't complete to all before the outer carton is present as well? The fact that so many tossed them away is probably the reason why they are so rare, and much sought after?!

If you would like to sell a bottle of beer in 60 years, keep the sixpack WITH the carton that holds the bottles together!

[Steinar]

hehe

[Dave Kane]

just got a question, since no question is ever too stupid....

Im just curious, and Im not being rude or anything here, ok? but whats the big deal about these paper cartons? Its not hard to imagine why these are so rare, since these paper cartons was considered to be garbage 63+/- years ago... because its was just protecting the case wasn't it?

its like a bottle of beer, you throw the bottle once its empty, but if you save it and store it for the next 60 years its probably a rare object but I still wouldn't pay $100 for that bottle 60 years from now... if you get me..

I guess its for the people thats very interested in rare and simple objects, down to the last detail

please, no angry comments in return

It's all part and parcel to the 'original' item...its history!

Who would buy a 40's radio without the knobs a collector car without an original engine etc., etc. if one wanted ORIGINAL and HISTORIC accuracy?

It's the same thing with this stuff and any antique...we look for an untouched 'window' to the past or at very least a close example to what it might have looked like!

Condition and completness is paramount in collecting, that is, unless one is just playing at it

The most recent effort regarding a publication epitomised the 'collector' spirit for accuracy and involved many who identify with miniscule detail....purists!!