DKiG, S&L

[M. Zimmer]

Hello,

I know that it was already discussed, but I try to start a new round.

You all know tis picture

[M. Zimmer]

Hello,

I know that it was already discussed, but I try to start a new round.

You all know tis picture

the foto shows the awards from Rudel. There is no discussion about the OLS Ol and KC, but what about the German Cross. What would you say its the maker ?
IMO it is a S&L, so this would clear the question if S&L produced DKs in wartime

[M. Zimmer]

the foto shows the awards from Rudel. There is no discussion about the OLS Ol and KC, but what about the German Cross. What would you say its the maker ?
IMO it is a S&L, so this would clear the question if S&L produced DKs in wartime

please compare to the following pics

[M. Zimmer]

please compare to the following pics

more

[M. Zimmer]

more

next

[M. Zimmer]

next

more

[M. Zimmer]

more

another

[M. Zimmer]

another

more

[M. Zimmer]

more

once again

[Dietrich Maerz]

Rudel got his original DK in December 1941. Therefore I would say that the original awarded piece was NOT a S&L. Otherwise there would be more (or any at all...).

So this pictured piece could only be (if it is a S&L) a second or third piece IMHO.

[M. Zimmer]

once again

I have this cross for over 7 years in my collection, a collector friend had a similar cross in his collection, with provenance from Walter Heinlein on 21.02.1944
Mathias

[Dave Kane]

I have this cross for over 7 years in my collection, a collector friend had a similar cross in his collection, with provenance from Walter Heinlein on 21.02.1944
Mathias

This is easy then Mathias! Let's examine the provenance of the 'Heinlein' Cross rather than attempt to compare an item to another in a poor photo

[DavidM]

Hello

Darn it !! While writing my reply, Dietrich beat me to it !! I too was about to say that Rudel was awarded his DKiG in 1941, (presented to him in December of that year), at Gorstowo near Moscow. In Vern Bowens 'The Prussian and German Iron Cross', there is a reasonably good colour photo of Rudels awards, (the same as the one shown here), and looking at it, given the general worn condition of, for example, his RK he wore during his missions I wouldn't think this DK was his original awarded piece. In the photo in Bowens book there appears to be no wear at all to the dark grey starburst, and the gold wreath appears to be pretty well untarnished - something I can't accept from a battle worn piece carried on a uniform during combat flight missions for some three and half years. In fact, it looks like it could have just come out of it's case.

My guess, and it is only that, a guess and a personal opinion based on what I can see, would be that if the DK in the photo is an S&L it was purchased to replace a lost or damaged, or even 'souvinered' item. If correct, the question then is, when did Rudel replace it? During the war or afterwards?

Going slightly of topic here, but as an aside, according to Bowen, who met with Rudel and was allowed to examine his awards as seen in the photo, the RK is his 1942 award piece, from 6-1-1942, and is a Juncker made piece marked L/12 and an incuse 800 mark on the rear upper arm.

Regards
David

[Chet Sowersby]

How can anyone using a fuzzy photo say with certainly that the cross in question is a S&L example?

Chet

[Steinar]

Maybe Rudel never used his dkig when he was in combat.... im sure alot of pilots didnt use this award in the air...

and, im not sure if this is correct, but i remember i read once that german soldiers couldn't wear more that 2 medals in combat, after 1942 or 41 because the award itself could be some sort of hinder... getting attached to stuff inside a plane, tank etc... its not unlogical is it?