Russian "Fur Raub und Mord" Iron Cross Found

[Mike P.]

Basically what I'm trying to say here is ...I think we should keep an open mind on these UNTIL more information is available to us. Some of the more blatant examples (like mine) should be recognized as repros ..but as Gordon said -
"Of course they are now widely faked but it is believed that some rare original examples exist."
The Russian clearly had a "facination" with Nazi regalia and the EK in particular but , ...I agree with everyone that these high quality multi-piece crosses are post war . And IMO ..Anyone defending them is wasting their time.
Maybe someday we'll find the real story on these

[Don D.]

I don't think they are "widely faked" because you rarely see them. Even ebay is devoid of them. So if they are/were widely faked where are they?

[Mike P.]

I don't know Don ...one thing that might affect them though ...if none of us (collectors) trust them and they are not accepted ..there's no "market" for them and no reason for the fakers to churn them out .
If it ever happens --I bet the day after a real one comes out of a Museum ..they'll be "tooling up" to match it .

Also …Here’s a great Link -- http://www.seftondelmer.co.uk <O></O>
If you take a minute to read it , you’ll see just how far (to what lengths) the British Psyops went to ..including shipping baskets of Food to German Families of fallen Soldiers (Food basket story -- http://www.heretical.com/walendy/sdelmer.html )<O></O>

There's still a LOT that went on during the War that we don't know about ..that's why I wouldn't Laugh these off just yet

[Don D.]

Anything is possible. The problem here is that we are buying the story and not the item. The story could have been made up to sell this type of "rare" cross. That is why I hope one of our russian friends can dig something up.

[Mike P.]

Agreed ..
I'm not ruling it out completely but ..For me to buy it, it would have to be something like an orig Soviet Government File explaining who (and why) ordered these to be produced accompanied with Period photographs. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>
I wouldn’t take an interview with a 90 year old Boris Badenoff as enough proof. <o></o>

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...As I said before , I do not know if they are real or copys...
But how many of you guys (belivers or non-believers) had actualy the chance to buy one?...or even seen one in real.
I collect more than 35 years, on an intensive scale....I've handled ONE...( and that one was very well made)
Pieter.

[Chris Boonzaier]

...As I said before , I do not know if they are real or copys...
But how many of you guys (belivers or non-believers) had actualy the chance to buy one?...or even seen one in real.
I collect more than 35 years, on an intensive scale....I've handled ONE...( and that one was very well made)
Pieter.

yet... so far on the various threads we have seen four or more makers?

[Don D.]

Detlev has one of these as his "Fake of the Week."

[Darrell]

Detlev has one of these as his "Fake of the Week."

Yep .... (I like following Don around the forums ) and here it is ....

[Brian S]

...and would be characterized as very well made, not widely available, but, still a fake. Time to put yours in the cigar box Pieter

[popskipa]

2.

[popskipa]

My R&M EK. Three piece construction with magnetic core.

Keith.

1.