Thin Date EK2 :

[Douglas 5]

Core is good as well ; note deteriation of pain
First the white bleading out of the lead to leadoxid - milky line as the paint gets worse and on the edge rust has broken through .
Evermore : never clean crosses !

[Douglas 5]

Centre bed closeup , traces of the old beading there .

[Douglas 5]

Compared to an early example , traces of old corners match .
Who ever has one , hold on to them .
Got to run
Douglas

[Robert P.]

Very nice work Douglas,

From the photos it looks like we have the same cores, but I'm still not 100% sure that our frames are from the same die. My photos are not high resolution and I cannot bring them up enough with clarity to see the evidence of die rework. At this point I lean toward them being the same because of other detailing being the same. Your study revealed that quite possibly these new frames were old worn dies, reworked/refurbished. I would never have imagined. My hat is off to you, Douglas. It's only a guess as to who salvaged these dies, reworked them, and began producing again. And it's only a guess as to when this work was done, whether wartime or postwar. I now wish I had taken and kept high res. photos...but I believe I can see the telltale evidence of rework still on this low res. photo...

Nice work, Douglas!

Robert

[Robert P.]

To all the members who have followed this thread, and thought me to be someone to follow in my knowledge of EK's, I owe a sincere apology for misleading and misguiding you in respect to this particular EK. Through proper study and much more experience than I, Douglas has revealed the hidden truth behind what I so improperly called a copy. I know Douglas personally. He is a very seasoned collector of the EK, and an avid student of the EK. He's a real credit to this forum. He approaches every EK scientifically. I've been amazed at the lengths he goes to in solving mysteries that I never thought possible. He really digs in to his hobby, and I admire that. Once again, my sincere apology to all of you on this. In simple terms, "I was wrong."

Robert

[Stu W]

Robert...still someone to follow in my opinion.

Hello Robert,

I have been one of many following this thread. I do not believe you have any need to apologize. Better to say what you think in a respectful manner and let us all learn from that. In this case you did and it's to your credit. Had you remained silent none of us would have learned as much from this thread as we have.

Best regards,
Stu

[Robert P.]

From this experience it has really taught me to research things out further before letting go with a premature and uneducated opinion, which could have negative effects upon the collector community. Douglas did things right, the reason for my respect for him.

Thanks Stu,

Robert

[zambrotta11]

To all the members who have followed this thread, and thought me to be someone to follow in my knowledge of EK's, I owe a sincere apology for misleading and misguiding you in respect to this particular EK. Through proper study and much more experience than I, Douglas has revealed the hidden truth behind what I so improperly called a copy. I know Douglas personally. He is a very seasoned collector of the EK, and an avid student of the EK. He's a real credit to this forum. He approaches every EK scientifically. I've been amazed at the lengths he goes to in solving mysteries that I never thought possible. He really digs in to his hobby, and I admire that. Once again, my sincere apology to all of you on this. In simple terms, "I was wrong."

Robert

Robert,

You have no need to apologise. It is always better to make your opinions know to others so we can make the hobby better for everyone. Sure a forum is for discussions after all.

Regards,
Stephen

[Jørgen E]

I have great respect for everyone who has contributed in this discussion! And I have learned a lot of reading this thread! It is because of dedicated users like Robert and Douglas we can learn and discover new facts in the collecting community!

So no need to apologize Robert, and it is because you (and I) questioned this EK we found new information! We need a lively forum with discussions :-) And I respect that we can all admit we were wrong :-)

Best regards,
Jørgen

[Robert P.]

Thanks guys,

And, you're all correct, a forum is for learning. And, I have learned from this thread. Now, I need to find another example like I had. I want to study it too.

Robert

[Adrian]

Robert,
There is no need to apologise for anything which has led to our collective knowledge being increased. You were/are absolutely correct to ask the question and you did it in a way that was constructive. All too often members post 'Fake' with no other information. It is a credit to yourself that you put forward a case which had to be answered.

Douglas,
Superb work, investigation and great explanatory photographs, hats off to you and Robert for enlightening us again. Thank you.

[Douglas 5]

Thank you members ;

Some crosses are easy to pick out and others post a challenge .
It is forums like this where pieces get presented for inspection and discussion !
As mentioned collecting a leaning experience for many even for myself and opinions will vary .
It was a slow start for me years back as well , however a lot of general information about all phases of manufacturing is a must , stickys and member presentations bring light to things one would not have thought of and or accidently find or even come across .
And Yes , .... being able to work with members directly like Robert , Ben , John Mike , Bob and many , many others - wish I could name them all- over the years has helped to gain general knowledge . Collective effort .
Only information shared is usefull , other wise lost .

As 80% of EK2's ,approximately , are not marked , and the vast number of manufacturers have gone through , what I call a 3 phases of manufacturing .
start phase if before 41 -high quality -low to average quantity , good metal stock . 41 to 43 mid-phase , metal restrictions and high number demands leading to substitutions and altimate finishing , dwindling supplies and hard pressed to meet production , little to no finishing just basic crosses with lower quality , the results . Many companies dropping out .
No general quality that can be applied to all makers , but each individual maker
having their own quality levels . For some these changes were minimal and for others it real shows !
This heavy demand periode of 41/42 is when alot of maker dies started wearing out ,some sooner some later . this is when old dies were sold to others and or re-engraved ! And a lot of these doughtful and 'out of character crosses' were born .
A gray area that has been a real stumbling block for collectors !
This is where fine indepth inspection becomes necessary .
There are more of these re-used dies in my opinion !
This is what lead up to this and have found 2 re-engraved frame dies sofar.

To the about samples I posted , I will email high pixel pictures to anyone who wants them , do to viewing restrictions here , ...

Regards Douglas