Maybe ... a marked '109' EKII

[Robert P.]

Robert,

Very interesting cross.
I will throw mine 2 unmarked crosses in that both came with the same packet.
The left cross is identical as yours marked ?09.
Til I saw your cross I believed that the cross couldn't belong to the bag because I always thought it was either a W&L or a Juncker.


Best regards,
Luud

Luud,

I believe you have added a big part of the puzzle with these two crosses. The cross on the right is a Juncker. The left, just as mine. And they both came in the same marked '109' W&H packet, huh? Does anyone know if Juncker made their own packets? I'm ignorant of this. I'm trying to look at every angle here. Why did (does) Detlev refer to these crosses on the left as 'Juncker type'? I asked him if it was because they had the cross-hatching like the RK's. He said, "No, not for that reason." So my only conclusion so far is that these crosses are a true '109'. Until we find a cross with the full stamp of '109' we can only presume. I was under the impression that these crosses were part of the Juncker firm, but not any more. Not with this ring stamp.

Thanks, Luud, for these photos.

Robert

[Robert P.]

Luud,

You really threw a big one in with that EKI !!!! I know some of these ol' timers here know the answers to this riddle. Come on guys, give us some help on this.

Look at even that bead flaw at 2:00 from the swasi. Exact same frame as my marked EKII on the first post.

Robert

[LuckyLuudje]

I will also throw in a L/12 EK1 with solid provenance.
I got it from a lady that got from the recipient (München) himself after taking care of him in his last year.

[LuckyLuudje]

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[LuckyLuudje]

I examined the marked with a microscope and concluded that the mark was made by the same tool.

I hope it helps you with your search,

[Robert P.]

Luud,

That frame resembles other L/12 frames I have seen on the forum. The core is something very different from Juncker's 90 degree square-cornered swasi edges. How many frames did Juncker use?

Did Juncker start using anything available at the close of the war when their own supplies were short???

Luud, very nice examples! The marks look absolutely identical on both pieces.

Robert

[LuckyLuudje]

Luud,

That frame resembles other L/12 frames I have seen on the forum. The core is something very different from Juncker's 90 degree square-cornered swasi edges. How many frames did Juncker use?

Did Juncker start using anything available at the close of the war when their own supplies were short???

Luud, very nice examples! The marks look absolutely identical on both pieces.

Robert

I personnaly believe Juncker did, but that's just a theory.
And if your EK2 is marked 109 (wich I think it is), Juncker was not the only one.
IMO the EK2 is made by W&L and W&L sold it to other makers for re selling.

Maybe in time we will know what happend.
Or maybe other members can tell what's going on.

Best regards,
Luud

[Robert P.]

Here are two of many examples I have of a cross which led me and others on this study of Detlev's 'Juncker type' EKII's. These are exactly like the original cross which started this thread, although both are unnumbered. Notice they all have the brass jump ring, the same cross-hatching on the inside corners and the outside corners, and both have the same bead design flaw at 2:00 from the swasi. The flaw looks like a 'scrunched' bead. A closer look at this detail will be in the third photo coming up. Of interest is the fact that this flaw is NOT the same as the flaw in the W&L EKII, although the W&L does have a similar flaw in the same area, but it is not the same as this frame. And the W&L which has this flaw does not have the cross-hatching in the corners as these crosses do. They stands alone in this regard.

Robert

[Robert P.]

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[Robert P.]

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[Paratrooper]

Hi,

here is my very early (i think one of the earliest) EK 2 from Juncker. It's unmarked but the opinion of many EK-Experts which had the piece in their hands give him solid provenance.
The core is very convex. The material of the frame is solid Nickelsilver.
The datas:

• High: 43,84mm
  Whide: 43,83mm
  Thick: 4,24mm
  Weight: 20,8Gramm

[Paratrooper]

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