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**Dietrich Maerz** · 11-19-2006, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by VIPER View Post

I still say it is just as probable that 800/4 were ASSEMBLED first although later coined than 935/4s.

That is a possibility. And one should not forget one STRONG plus for the 800-4! The "4" marking!

**Dave Kane** · 11-19-2006, 09:03 PM

Here are the 'stamps' we are most comfortable with....

**Dave Kane** · 11-19-2006, 09:04 PM

micro

**Dietrich Maerz** · 11-19-2006, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Chris Jenkins View Post

It had a zinc core and incused 800 stamp minutely off centre to the frame. The frame was beginning to split quite badly due to (IMO) swelling/degredation of the core. As far as I am aware, there were no visible die flaws in the the 3 o'clock arm.

The cross is shown in Gordon's book on page 314.

**Dave Kane** · 11-19-2006, 09:06 PM

935/4...only the '4' is incuse

**Dave Kane** · 11-19-2006, 09:08 PM

...then the subject matter! And the question of 'why'!

**Bob Hritz** · 11-20-2006, 12:03 AM

I am just curious about the Kleissheim provenance of the 935 4 marked Knight's Crosses. I have tracked a number of Kleissheim vets and only found lazy 2 Juncker Knight's Crosses among the many medals. Of course, there were many Kleissheim vets who I never found and were larter tracked by such luminaries as Jason Burmeister. Jason's word would be good enough for me.

What I find odd is that I was doing this for 4 decades and my word on vet acquisitions is i

dismissed, but someone else's word with the Kleissheim association is considered gospel.

Makes me wonder why my word is taken so lightly.

Bob Hritz

ps: The bottom line is that you collect what you believe; as little is carved in stone. We really know little about Knight's Crosses, or any other medals and badges. I read the disinformation being discussed by those who only repeat erroneous information that was debunked decades ago by those who have gotten these items from the veterans who brought them back in 1945. It is only consensus of opinion, not facts, that feed the dealers and drive the hobby.

**VIPER** · 11-20-2006, 12:45 AM

Well said Bob. I too own one of the "questionable crosses". The vet who had yours takes us back too 1945 at the worst. I do not believe S@L would have put that kind of quality and finish in a souvenir cross for returning GIs. Especially in the chaos of Germany between Ludenshieds capture and when your vet returned home. Just another theory...........Jimmy

**km-spain** · 11-20-2006, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

So some were assmbled after 45. We agree on the 935, ...

Why are you so sure that the 935 were assembled after 45?. So, were they stamped before may 1945?.

Dietrich, I understand your theory, but I can not understand why your conclusions are so definitives. As a theory, that is more or less impossible to have a definitive conclusion because the course of the years.

**Dietrich Maerz** · 11-20-2006, 07:59 AM

Eduardo,

the 935 was already deemed post war long before 'my theory'. Even Detlev Niemann considers them to be post war and is not listing them in his price guide. There was always a consensus on those. I'm just using is as a benchmark.

I'd like to stress again that all the above are my opinions! It should and must be challenged!

The post of Bob Hritz, however, made me think. He is right, his word is clearly as good as the word speaking for the 935-4 as a Klessheim found! I have no right to question that!

**Brian S** · 11-20-2006, 09:46 AM

I agree completely with Dave Kane on the stamps.

**Detlev Niemann** · 11-20-2006, 09:47 AM

Dear Dietrich,

No, I'm 100% sure that the "935 4" S&L's with magnetic cores are war period. I had several, some in groups, other singles.
I have no problems with them, never had.Beside that they are pretty scarce.

BUT there are (from my point of view) post war S'L's with silver content marks "935".

regards
detlev

**Dietrich Maerz** · 11-20-2006, 09:57 AM

Hi Detlev,

did you mean "800-4" or "935-4"??

If the 800-4 came in groups to you - that pretty much settles it, I would think. Any award dates?

And yes, they are very rare, compared to the 935's!

Dietrich

**km-spain** · 11-20-2006, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post

Eduardo,

the 935 was already deemed post war long before 'my theory'. Even Detlev Niemann considers them to be post war and is not listing them in his price guide. There was always a consensus on those. I'm just using is as a benchmark.

I'd like to stress again that all the above are my opinions! It should and must be challenged!

The post of Bob Hritz, however, made me think. He is right, his word is clearly as good as the word speaking for the 935-4 as a Klessheim found! I have no right to question that!

Dietrich, as always thanks for your answer. I own a 935 S&L RK, and I bought it as a war time original one to a well know dealer. It was checked for a friend, that collect mainly RKs, and for him, as for other people it's OK.

My doubt is why some of you are 100% sure that is a post war piece. The finish quality, the non-magnetic core is the same than in the earlier S&L models, all looks like the wartime models, so why they are postwar?

Thanks again.

**Stephen Stout** · 11-20-2006, 10:32 AM

!

Originally posted by km-spain View Post

Dietrich, as always thanks for your answer. I own a 935 S&L RK, and I bought it as a war time original one to a well know dealer. It was checked for a friend, that collect mainly RKs, and for him, as for other people it's OK.

My doubt is why some of you are 100% sure that is a post war piece. The finish quality, the non-magnetic core is the same than in the earlier S&L models, all looks like the wartime models, so why they are postwar?

Thanks again.

I am an owner of an '935' and I personally believe that it is postwar however, it would be awesome if it was found to be wartime issue. That would really be cool. Nevertheless, we need the truth! Here is a dumb question, why hasn't anyone asked S&L?

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