Ek1 + Ek2 + urkundes

[Rik]

I got this lot with the post today, I believe these to be original. Can someone say anything about the Ek 1.class, maker?
The EK 2 ribbon smells really old and really bad, so as the documents. The 'rim' of the EK2 has turned a little bit gold yellowish, is that just dirt or has anybody seen the same thing on another EK2?
The documents are signed by admiral L******252;tjens, the EK1 doc is signed 9 days before the admiral disappeared and the Bismarck sunk.

[Rik]

2

[Simon O.]

The date on the EKI, 18th May 1941 is very significant indeed. That was the day operation Rheinübung began and likely the last day Lütjens carried out fleet paperwork like this.

[Hank C.]

Very nice little grouping, not much idea on the EK 1... There are quite a few you can rule out.
Might be a Godet or Zimmerman, looking at the pin.

Hank

[Panzer Rob]

Both documents look good to me as do the crosses, but I'm afraid I can't help you with the maker - I'll leave that one to the experts

Great docs. Love the early dates, too. You don't see many 1940/1941 issue EKII and EKI docs for sale these days.

Nice grouping!

Rob

[F L Clemens]

I'm not a KM collector so forgive a stupid question. The stamps and locations on the Urkunden seem pretty generic. Flottenchef and Flottenkommando but no mention of exactly which Flotte? Same for Standort. Seems unnecessarily secretive relative to the actual units given for the awardee. The stamp on at least one of the docs seems especially blurred or weak.
I guess the ultimate judgement would be based on the Lutjens signatures.
Nice grouping if legit.

[Rik]

I'm not an expert either but isn't that normal on KM urkundes, since they did not always were on a location that had a name?
The two signatures differ from each other, as all signatures. Haven't seen a sig. of Lutjens before so I cannot compare.
I still like them though

[mdj]

nice set Rik, congrats

martin

[nellyp51]

Would like to see better shots of the EK1 if possible, especially the catch and hinge, also a side on view would be great if you can produce one.

[Rik]

I'll take some new pics tomorrow.

[Hank C.]

I'm not a KM collector so forgive a stupid question. The stamps and locations on the Urkunden seem pretty generic. Flottenchef and Flottenkommando but no mention of exactly which Flotte? Same for Standort. Seems unnecessarily secretive relative to the actual units given for the awardee. The stamp on at least one of the docs seems especially blurred or weak.
I guess the ultimate judgement would be based on the Lutjens signatures.
Nice grouping if legit.

I've had one or two docs with the Lutjens signature (and probably still do here somewhere). I believe these compare favorably.
And KM Urkunden do seem to be rather vague. Many of the EKs and Minesweeper type docs only give a fleet, it's rare to find them with units. War badges such as the HSF or Destroyer badge urkunden usually DO have the name of the ship.
There's a few docs on Weitzes site that I'd buy based on signature, but since I can't place the awardees in any unit or ship, I don't REALLY know if they fit in the special area I look for (21. u-jagd flottille).

Hank

[Rik]

Would like to see better shots of the EK1 if possible, especially the catch and hinge, also a side on view would be great if you can produce one.

Here are some new pics, is this enough?

[Paratrooper]

Hi sauron_r,

it's a nice and authetic set you have there. I have much "award-documents" in my database and i cannot find anything which lets me doubt.

Very nice and interesting EK 1.

I never saw this kind of setup on the reverse.
Exspecially the "lying" Hinge with this kind of needle.
I found no EK 1 like this in my large data base.

I am pleased if someone can say which firm is the manufacturer.

Regards
Andreas

[Simon O.]

Comparing the sigs with other Lütjens sigs i either have or have seen i see no real cause for concern. For the time he is the right man in the right job to be signing S-boot EK docs. Early war it seems that the men of the S-flottillen had their EK docs signed by fleet command, later docs are often signed by Rudolf Petersen as Führer der Schnellboote. A great pity his S-boot doc isn't with the group.

Flottenchef and Flottenkommando but no mention of exactly which Flotte

Not what or which fleet but THE fleet. If that makes sense.

That EK1 doc is defintely the jewel of this grouping. S-boot groupings aren't exactly thick on the ground, an EK1 to an S-boot man is pretty rare. On top of that to have it signed by Lütjens on the very day Bismarck was loading up the last of her stores prior to setting out on her fateful voyage in the early hours of the 19th makes it really quite special indeed.
Looking through the books i see that the 1 S-flottille was quite busy attacking British shipping in the North sea during 1940 and early '41.

[nellyp51]

IMO your EK1 is a repo

I have owned one with the same set up catch and hinge. I cant see any join (crimping line) on the side view of the EK1.

However you will need comments from more senior members on this EK1, hope I am wrong, but do believe this to be a repoduction

If it is the same as the one I picked up in Syria of all places for about USD100, then it is a no go.

The guy in the shop, it was actually in the Jewish quarter of Demascus also tried to sell me a Luftwaffe award, cant remember what it was but am glad I did not buy it as well as it was $$$$

I must add that there were one piece EK1 constructed during the war, but I believe this to not be one of the one piece varients

Like I say hope I am wrong.