Opinions one EK2, Straight Leg?

[Paratrooper]

Either way, I will hold these until a definate answer is found. There are other Iron Crosses of varying quality that are accepted as original. As for me, the jury is still deliberating.

Hi,

i think that's the best what one can make. Hold the item in such cases where a definate answer still isn't found.

BTW Nice examples

I believe the fakers are going to make the best quality they can, within cost restraints, to part suckers from their money. The closer fakes are to originals, the better chance they have of making the big $$$$.

You're absolutely right. In Hungary and in China they make copys they have even the same die flaws as the original. In the next time a wave from copies in a so far not well-known quality will come to us.
But this case with the two part core ic 2. class is another think. We have a generally discussion about the question if this pieces are all fakes. And if there is no piece wich is recognized as original the fakers didn't have the reason for making this quality.
For me that is one reason for my opinion that this pieces are wartime originals.

Regards
Andreas

[Tiger 1]

Andreas,

We differ in our opinions here. That s fine. Differing opinions make for a more interesting world. Just remember that opinions are just that, and they are mutable.

I am not an absolutist collector so the words 'always' and 'never' are not in my collecting vocabulary. I had those phrases learned out of me at a young age in my collecting life. I believe I owe that piece of learnin' to Bob Hritz, my old mentor when I started to seriously collect so many years ago.

The fact that Bob Hritz has had this one example in his collection for 35 years certainly has added weight and merit toward finding the truth in this matter.

Regarding the working of various metals we seem to disagree. The stamping of thin steel steel is much easier and cheaper than die forging the thicker iron or mild steel planchettes. Think about it.

Dies today are not that big of a problem to manufacture with the advances in the manufacture of dies. Laser cut and computer controlled for accuracy no less. If the design is proper and the dies are cut correctly then the assembly of numerous fitted components made from them is not a problem.

In today's industry the assembly of intricately made parts is part and parcel of many manufacturing businesses. One just needs to look at the plastic model industry and the intricate model kits that contain hundreds of parts which ultimately fit together with amazing accuracy.

The manufacture of a two piece stamped core and a two piece stamped frame with two extruded wire rings all jigged up and soldered together to form an Iron Cross is not rocket science. It is straight forward manufacturing of a relatively simple product designed for mass production at the cheapest price point possible.

It'll be interesting to see how this search for knowledge plays out.

All the best,

Tony

[Peter Wiking]

Keep in mind that Souval started to make fakes as far back as the 1960's. Pieces of the "Floch" design can be traced back to the 1970's. We know as well that S&L continued to make pieces with the swastika after the war had ended.

Cheers.
Peter

[Bob Hritz]

You must also remember that 37 years ago is only the early 1970's and there were good fakes, already then.

I did not say that I KNOW the Iron Crosses are wartime original, but they have been in collections for at least 35 years.

Much to still learn, I am afraid.

Bob hritz

[Biro]

Can Bob H and any other owners of these confirm whether there examples are in fact 2 piece cores?

One other question I'll throw out there, simply because I honestly don't know the answer... how many other manufactures produced EK1's and EK2's that utilised exactly the same core and frame making there parts essentially interchangeable??

While Bob's example (and for that matter, the one posted first in this thread) look very convincing as regards patina etc.. I still find it hard to look any further than this obviously tampered with 1st class example with 2nd class frame.

Much to learn indeed!

Marshall.

[hagwalther]

Late model 1957 EK awards (both First and Second Class) have the circular mark on the frame as denoted by Biro in posting # 35.

I think that it is fair to say that late model 1957 Iron Crosses regardless of class used the same frame.

Regards ...

[meriksson]

Bob!
Can you please show the back side off ur 2 Ek´s, and i do love this discussion
Mikael