S&L DKs Pre or Post WAR ?

[blackbob]

Discussion nice. When S&L DKiG held in hand, it is bad quality and not like wartime cross. Quality is bad to point that is much different than other makers. Only time this happens is fakes/post war. Dotted DKiG, which seems fake, much better quality.

[speedytop]

Hi Andreas,

I have my problems with your last comment!

Your affinity to Klein & Quenzer and especially to Assmann is well known and very nice, but what is it good for in this thread?

I don't know, why SuL changed their marking post WW II, but they did it definitely!

My comments are especially for the assertion of Leroy, that no German company produced after May 1945 pieces with a swastika before the end of the fifties!

"There has never been any direct evidence produced, anywhere, that actual factory production of Third Reich pieces was "re-commenced" at any time before, at the earliest, the late 1950's..."

And I say "No", because at least SuL did it.
For that I don't need other companies like Assmann and/or Klein & Quenzer!

Once more, "please show me at least one other piece with this maker mark "ST.& L.", definitely made by Stenhauer & Lück before May 1945."

SuL did it with the deviant marking, it is the reality. At the end of the forties and later!

Pleas see the picture.
The SuL logo in the circle is from the book "Krantz, Orden und Ehrenzeichen" from 1958 (produced 1957/1958).
The next picture show the marking on a German Bundeswehr Fallschirmspringerabzeichen, produced 1957/1958!
And I could write, that "I can find their ST&L on my Bundeswehr Leistungsabzeichen, awarded to me in 1973", see the last subframe.



Uwe

[Andreas Klein]

Hi Uwe,

what i tried tio say is that we don't know how many logos are markings a maker had and we don't know if - for example - a maker used theit postwar logo allready before 1945.

To me it would be guesswork without any information from the makers itself that a certain logo indicates a pre- or postwar production. Btw i could ad Overfoff, Lüdenscheid to my list too who used exacly the same logo on their wartime business papers, wartime belts and postwar production.

Why is it always a problem when SuL is doing things like many other firms did too?

And i underline everything what Leroy wrote in his post. Where was the need for a postwar production if the stocks of the makers were full?

Lüdenscheid had never seen a single bomb or any damage. When allied troops entered the town it was full of finished and half finished stuff. Where was the need to a ongoing postwar mass production and for whom?

Btw i think that the allied troops weren't that friendly to the germans after they had seen the first concentration camps and the last thing would be imo to allow the germans an ongoing swaz realated production. If i had been an allied soldier i had taken my souvenier from the street, one of the maker's stocks which hadn't any value for the surrendered germans or had traded it with a german soldier.

I was last year in Gablonz to check the Gablonz makers and we found several balance sheets which were written some weeks before russian troops entered the town. Well, we had minor maker which had at this time 50.000 (!) finished woundbages in their stock and i speak of a minor maker ond not one of the big players.

Another thing is that the Lüdenscheid based firms wanted to start their business again with the new german goverment.

If you had been the german goverment had you made a firm to the main maker of the new Bundesverdienstkreuz if they had produced nazi stuff after the war as germany hadn't surrenderd?

Finally a picture for you (to bad i have not a better one):

[Andreas Klein]

obverse

[George L]

Hey gents, here ya go! Have at it -

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=420107

[Thomas Durante]

Leroy, was there any DKs on the sample boards you know of? How does it compare to these S&Ls?

Thanks

Tom

[Leroy]

Tom,
Here are the original photos when posted, so you can judge for yourself. The second photo is after the main pieces were removed for separate sale (all with COA's from Detlev) by "e-medals". I understand that both DK's sold pretty quickly, for big money. (The white tag in the first photo was a "lot" tag from the auction house in England.)
Best,
Leroy

[Leroy]

Second photo.

[Thomas Durante]

Thanks Leroy. I am not familiar enough with studying DKs to know if these match the S&Ls or another makers from this distance. Maybe Dietrich can tell....

Tom

[Leroy]

Tom,
They were sold as S&L DK's.
Best,
Leroy

[George L]

One observation is both Dk's pictured on the board have the soft tips on the silver sunburst back plate at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions as the gold version I posted for whatever it's worth...

[Leroy]

I think someone keeps voting over and over again.

[Darrell]

I think someone keeps voting over and over again.

Gentry, don't you know .... Polls are the proof to the end. Whoever wins the poll ... determines the truth

[Leroy]

Gentry, don't you know .... Polls are the proof to the end. Whoever wins the poll ... determines the truth