S&L 800 KC - Opinions please

[robert60446]

Guys,
Correct me please if I’m wrong, but ribbons probably were delivered to the S&L Company in the form of big “roll of ribbon”, then S&L workers cut the material to the length and put the RK sets together. Now the question is how many “rolls” S&L got in their warehouse in May 1945? Probably at least few. Then we have to remember that their supplier could still continue to produce “innocent” ribbons for years after the war has ended as well…With supplies like this S&L could keep making these sets for many years (I’m assuming that they kept some stocks of boxes as well). If I would be on the market for the RK, I would never touch anything made by S&L other then cross himself (thanks to Dietrich we can tell the difference here). IMO you guys got full hands of problems to sort out here…

[Dietrich Maerz]

If there's no 'dent row' on a ribbon and/or a case we will never be able to tell. So if you can't tell one way or the other but everything checks out with pre-45 I guess that's it then...

[robert60446]

So if you can't tell one way or the other but everything checks out with pre-45 I guess that's it then...

...and if you can't tell one way or the other but cross is post-45 I guess that's it then......

[Dietrich Maerz]

Good point!

... and then one takes the bad cross out, take off the ribbon, put it on a good cross, put the cross in the case and that's it then...

[robert60446]

Good point!

... and then one takes the bad cross out, take off the ribbon, put it on a good cross, put the cross in the case and that's it then...

Yes, if the One is 100% positive that case is pre-45 and can prove it...
The question: did S&L was manufacturing their own cases or these cases were supplied to the S&L Company by some other contractor?

[Dave Kane]

I don't think it's deliberate pairing of a good case and a good ribbon with a bad cross. That's just how they came and still are comming. I would think that S&L had quite some stock of cases and ribbons. Remember the one you bought on E-bay! Wasn't the case and ribbon good?

Dietrich

That's an interesting statement albeit I don't agree

I would think that as a 'dealer' one would seperate a very nice period case and ribbon from a 'post war' piece and sell them for a premium amount...considering how rare and infrequently cases come for sale. At very least pair them w/ a period Cross as there's nothing like " cased Knight's Cross" in a headline to catch one's eye! That is of course if the dealer isn't attempting to 'puff' the Cross!

Do you think that HW really doesn't know that the Cross is post war? Even the description is incredibly 'general' and doesn't suggest war time or post!

As far as the set I 'aced' on Ebay that shouldn't be used as a base as there were many years of unknown ownership....

[Dietrich Maerz]

So you think he 'puffs' the cross with a good case and ribbon? Why not just sell the cross alone and pair the good case with a good cross?

At any rate, the cross is an S&L postwar and no case and no ribbon will change that.

[Dave Kane]

Of course it is...you know it and many others do but my question was do YOU think that he doesn't!

Additionally, now that we are on to it what do you think makes a case 'post war' made and idealy what to look for

[Dietrich Maerz]

I don't know whether he knows or not. I'm happy that I know and that's enough for me.
Regarding the cases: I can't answer that if you mean pre and post war of same style, same material, same appearance - like we seem to have here.

[Dave Kane]

The reason I ask is that I thought you and he had spent some time together...I thought for sure that the 'subject' may have come up....

Too bad if it didn't!

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, we did talk. But I don't think that everybody I ever talked to immidiatley or later got the same opinion I have about some subjects. Some do, some don't, as you know. Some are convinced, some aren't.

Therefore it's so important to have an own opinion and to be happy to live with it.

[Dave Kane]

Yes, I understand

[robert60446]

The question: did S&L was manufacturing their own cases or these cases were supplied to the S&L Company by some other contractor?

Anyone?...

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, I understand

I thought so.
Let's see whether it sells. My article was printed in Germany in the magazine "Militaria" and also published on a German discussion forum. Whoever takes the time to read and study it will have an opinion about this cross.
It is clearly post war production and therefore a fake or a "reproduction" and not worth the € 7,000.-.

@Robert: I would think that S&L bought the cases from an outside source. There is a big difference between metal manufacturing and case manufacturing and I haven't seen nor heard of any evidence that S&L was the producer of it's own cases (for all things they sold)

[robert60446]

@Robert: I would think that S&L bought the cases from an outside source. There is a big difference between metal manufacturing and case manufacturing and I haven't seen nor heard of any evidence that S&L was the producer of it's own cases (for all things they sold)

That’s what I think so too. Now, the case takes a lot of space in the storage room. IMO the S&L didn’t really kept big stock of cases (no need to “overload” the warehouse). This leads me to believe that almost all post war made RK’s by them are with post war made cases…