Cased DKiG on e-Stand

[Larry L]

Mathias, was your cross acquired directly from the recipient?

L

And here is a piece from my collection.

100% original!!!

Mathias

[IVAN]

I have to go along with Brian here ... a very civilized discussion. What amazes me here ... is that 14 months after I posted the one I used to own ... it appears these have finally gotten their just due. Not one discouraging or biting remark from the detractors back then ... and I'm not just talking about tom hansen. Go back and read that thread. Why are these guys so quiet now?

Tom Hansen is suspended in this forum now...

@ George, please can you do big clear photos of black worn star of yours ? I am interested to see the material under the black paint, thanks

[Ron Weinand]

Forums

This type of thread, the results and the backtracking of what was originally thought to be bogus, is the reason that we should always be careful of what we think or write on these sites.
It is hard to determine exactly what occurred during the 12 year span of the Third Reich when it comes of commercially produced items of the times and one must weigh all the information and try to make a rational determination when the facts are all in.
Not that I am claiming that every piece shown on the forum is above question, but we must be more open when it comes to what is being said and what the consensus is.
This thread is more than enough proof to me that, when those who have some experience with a piece come forward with their experiences concerning originality and acquisition, the truth will come out for all to see.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

[Darrell]

This type of thread, the results and the backtracking of what was originally thought to be bogus, is the reason that we should always be careful of what we think or write on these sites.
It is hard to determine exactly what occurred during the 12 year span of the Third Reich when it comes of commercially produced items of the times and one must weigh all the information and try to make a rational determination when the facts are all in.Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

EXACTLY. Just because it's not in my or your collection or it's something different or unique should not be shot down as being fake, just as well as it should not automatically deemed to be a correct "variation".

Opinions (regardless of which way they go), by respected members of this forum carry a tremendous amount of weight. These (sometimes) "unfounded" opinions can often be unjustified and create the dollar value of collections to be reduced un-necessarily.

[George L]

Ivan, I have lightened up part of the photo to show the brass colored areas under the paint.

On a side note, what happened to Tom H? Did he implode, or have a meltdown?

[George Stimson]

Tom was suspended for misbehavior. That said, let's stick to the topic at hand.

[Bob Hritz]

There never was a question, in my mind, of the originality of the 'speckled" or 'doted' date German Crosses. I have had these, from veterans, over the years and no one ever questioned them. It is a shame when something original must be defended when a sea of fakes is always pushing at the dykes.

They were original, they are still original and will always be original. authenticity, like death and pregnancy, is absolute. There is no "a little dead, or a little pregnant" or a little fake.

Bob hritz

[Peter J.]

The truth will always stand on it's own feet

KR
Peter

There never was a question, in my mind, of the originality of the 'speckled" or 'doted' date German Crosses. I have had these, from veterans, over the years and no one ever questioned them. It is a shame when something original must be defended when a sea of fakes is always pushing at the dykes.

They were original, they are still original and will always be original. authenticity, like death and pregnancy, is absolute. There is no "a little dead, or a little pregnant" or a little fake.

Bob hritz

[Jody]

DK on E-stand

Hello,
I just came across this thread and to add to what Bob and Ron said, I have also owned these type of DKs with dots in the dates. The last one I had was a veteran obtained piece in the late 70's.

As a matter of fact, there is a similar cased DK that I am trying to obtain from a 10th Mountain Divison veteran.

I have no problem with these. Nice cross Ron.
Regards,
Jody

[Don D.]

While I don't have a dog in this fight I will say this: I remember the thread that condemned these and I don't remember a whole lot of people defending them. I also think that without an opposing view who will question things that we have never seen or noticed before? The silencing of either side here is detrimental to the hobby. What is required is honest, open, and balanced discussion. Perhaps in the future a little less ego and a little more facts would go a long way in resolving these questions.
Time to get off the soap box.
Have a nice day and Merry Christmas.
Don

[Larry L]

I also don't have one of these dotted ones, but couple of questions come to mind.
Question 1: Anyone has one of these crosses from recipient? Or are these only found from US veterans (like Dachau items).
Question 2: Is there any artikel or reference book that mention these variations?

L

[IVAN]

Ivan, I have lightened up part of the photo to show the brass colored areas under the paint.

On a side note, what happened to Tom H? Did he implode, or have a meltdown?

Thanks George,

have you a scan to do a pic ?

Ivan

[George L]

Sorry Ivan, these are the last pictures I have.

For your records, my DK weighed in at 44.4 g

[IVAN]

From what we can see from this thread , sure "imprint" is from Zimmermann firm, I think the firm has done this cross.

BUT.....we are NOT sure if this 3rd pattern Zimmermann's cross ( and it can be seen from this wreath, different from the other 2 patterns) is done just BEFORE or just AFTER the end of war.

They can be the last crosses Zimmermann has done just before the end of war, stored and ready to be given to the winner or can be done just after the end of war ( as they have done other firms with for example RK ) with some original parts and same machinerys with another wreath and die mm stamp and maybe another black star.....these can be the reasons why I never seen , a sure worn piece.....

Personally, I would like to have in my collection the typical ones.

k.r.

Ivan Bombardieri

[FW 200]

Variations

Several years ago I got out of guns, and into this stuff because, now please don't laugh, because I got tired of re-blued, re-worked, re-numbered and outright faked guns and thought this was safer. Unfortunatly, I left two hard learned lessons behind when I made the switch- leave the rare variations and so-called transition pieces to the experts, and stick to less controversial things. This cost me a lot of money. To the new guys, my advice is to search this website thoroughly before making any purchases involving more money than you can afford to throw out the window. I have had to return at least one item to every dealer I've done business with. So far, I've not had to return a single item to a member. I am sure I may have in fact probably returned a good piece or two over the years, but better safe than floched!