And one more thing - we have discussed this matter before in the other thread - G. Williamson wrote in his book that INDEED there were some items (flat back) originally produced by the German workshops DURING the war. They were also stamped with '925' so... my point is could it be such an example? (I personally doubt it hence the '925' look different from these made by Germans and I would say they're 100% post war producxtion. Nevertheless IMO the loop with '800' mark is an authentic WWII item. The stamp detail is there!!
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G. Williamson wrote there:Originally posted by Grant Broadhurst
(...) (There is of course nothing intrinsically wrong with a 925 stamp on a German piece, there are many 1914 EKs that are 925 stamped). (...)
In the title of this thread stays English m'925' mark - I would like to UNDERLINE that '925' stamp is NOT English but INTERNATIONAL one and not only IS but WAS and HAS BEEN. Thinking about it as an English mark is wrong from the very beginning.
Silver possesses, it's working qualities similar to gold but can achieve the most brilliant polish of any metal. To make it durable for jewelry, however, pure silver (999 fineness) is often alloyed with small quantities of copper. In many countries, Sterling Silver (92.5% silver, 7.5% copper) is the standard for Jewelry and has been since the 14th century.
The copper toughens the silver and makes it possible to use silver 925 for decorative and fashionable jewelry.Last edited by Okrach; 10-18-2005, 03:08 AM.Comment
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At the end of the day my common sense dictates to me why would a company in the late 80,s early 90,s making these Oaks/swords and then selling them onto S & L ( who never made wartime RK,s oaks or swords with the 925 mark , only 800 or 935 ) want to solder on to them a WW2 loop it doesn't make sense .Comment
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Ok that,s fine but correct me if i,m wrong but i,ve never seen any WW2 EK,s or RK,s , Oaks or swords that were marked 925 . I,m surprised that WW1 EK,s were stamped 925 as at the end of the day Germany had 800 and 935 silver ( which is a purer grade than 925 ) .Originally posted by OkrachComment
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Fingers crossed for you mate, you could be on a goldmine there or at the very least, an abnomaly that could be REAL rare.
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Hi Grant,Originally posted by Grant Broadhurst
Thank You for discussion (the more different opinions the better discussion).
YEAP, I could agree. It is at least uncommon - but as You can see it IS REAL.
The explanation which sounds real is the usage of the WWII left-overs (the mark '800' stamped on the loop has the IIWW quality - no doubt about it. What is more the loop is long enough to be one from RK).
The '925' has been used by Germans (WWI and WWII as well as by now). Indeed they used other probes more frequent ('800' and '935) but it doesn't matter they did not complete ANY set marked with '925'. How many original IIWW swords have we seen here?: one two, maybe five different sets. It is highly unaccurate to assume something on such a basis.
Look at the swords of Bratwurst - no doubt '925' stamp but it was made using German stamp - the difference is clearly seen when to compare the stamps of i.e. mine example and Brat's. The originality of those swords leaves no doubt. Avoiding such a fact is a mistake. German made '925' mark simply HAS existed!Comment
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Hello Tomasz...
It's a little unclear what exactly you are advocating here ... that the loop is wartime?... or the swords?... or both?....
It would help if you could clarify that... and also whether
a) The swords have 8 'dots' on the hilt....
b) The '800' mark on the loop you think might be wartime is (as you pointed out) 'an exact match' for the '800' mark on the cross from 1957
c) both ends of the loop are roughly and unevenly finished
d) the '800' mark on the loop is centrally placed and not anywhere near near either end..
e) etc...
I personally don't think there is anything remotely wartime about any of the three componants... but I may be missing the point of your observations...
regardsComment
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Hi Guys,
These Oaks with Swords are all (IMO) modern items. The swords have been soldered to the Oaks and are a cast item. They have more casting pock marks than artillery strike marks on a WW1 battlefield...
Regards ...Comment
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Double posting ...Comment
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Hi,Originally posted by Biro
I know what You mean so:
1) the '800' mark is the German production. Were the stamps newly made after the war? Maybe but I am not sure. There is possibility that the war time stamp may have been used as well to produce '57 awards. The stamp on the loop is smaller than the one on the cross but the design is similar if not the same. As I know such a design was commonly used on the war time crosses and their loops (with respective size of course)
2) The design of the oaks IMO disclaims its war time origin - the '925' mark doesn't seem to be German (too bright contures). My concern is the loop which I belive is the war time production. The question remains however - what is the loop marked '800' doing on the '925' piece?
3) According to Grant's suggestion I would say that some left-overs were used to make it. Going a little bit further I would notice that evenif the oaks and swords were made in England (what may suggest the stamp features), what was the point to solder the '800' German marked loop to it? Facing such a fact one would assume that the whole piece was made in Germany - question: WHEN?
ad. Your d) - Indeed it is in the middle but...when were the marks done? After forming the loops or simply every counted length before loop forming process?... this would support the 'Leftover' idea.
At the end, yes I am awared of that there is practically no chance that this piece is a war time (a little unfortunate thread name
) one but the question remains - WHEN and WHERE was it produced?
Have I made the thing a little bit clearer?
Anyway - I will gladly discuss the subject
Every opinion is warmly welcomed
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Here is the comparison of the two different '800' war time and the post war. I can see here a lot of similiarities...Comment
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