1957 RKs -- scarce and expensive? or being hoarded?

[Brien]

Hello folks,

I recently offered up to a $1,000.00 reward for an early cased 1957 Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross. I received 1 reply........are the 57s going the way of the 39 RKS? Beautiful, but completely overpriced and totally out of the reach of the normal collector who doesn't have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on one item alone?

Are they being kept out of sight by 39 collectors who want to see the value of these once "cheap Junk" medals rise to unheard of heights?

I offered up to $1,000.00 for a pristine example......what I thought was a MORE than generour offer.....a full 1/10th of a 39 RK. considering the fact that there seem to be more "authentic" RKs for sale on the dealer websites and next to none of the 57 versions. EBAY is FULL of the CRAP peices being churned out daily.

So what gives?

Comments? Am I just not looking in the right places? Am I way off base? or have I happend upon a collector conspiracy? Shine some light guys/gals.

If I am wrong and totaly off-base, let me know......but I'm not seeing the prrof in the pudding lately.

[Dave Kane]

Brien, 'do the math' as they say!


Those who wanted a '57 possibly would be the group of survivors who couldn't, didn't or otherwise lost their war time award. In the period between 45 and 57 (original) Knight's Crosses were not difficult to obtain. This is evidenced in print.

The 'run' of original and to be awarded '57 crosses was probably quite small and surely taken up very quickly as those who were inclined to have one probably would have asked right away.

I suspect that the re-awarding would have been complete withing a couple of years of '57 with 'straglers' appearing for a just a few years therafter.

That said now and with the increase of 'collector interest' booming in the 60's and production now directed toward that genre.....ORIGINAL '57's are indeed super rare.

Original in a sense of war time die, left over stock, workmanship and the feel of that level of award. The 'window' of the '57 I think was very narrow to say the least!

[hagwalther]

I quite agree with Dave.

I have a mid issue cased one, magnetic and quite nice but to find one assembled of 1939 parts would be quite a challange.

Regards ...

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Brien, I own an early 57 RK - a heavily flawed S&L example. It is certainly not mint and it is definitely not in a case. So I would not have been able to reply to your wanted add, even if I had wished to sell! No collector conspiracy on my part.

I personally have seen very few definitely early 57er RK cased sets. Maybe aim a bit lower and just try and find the RK? You can always marry it to a suitable case at a later date for display.

As an aside, I guess the fact that you could not entice anyone with a $1000 offer negates the "cheap Junk" comment!

Regards
Mike K
PS: My RK came as part of a small grouping to a known oakleaves winner - RK, EK1, EK2 stickpin with RK/EK1/EK2 and a few photos (haven't figured out why there are no oakleaves on the stickpin though). To be honest, and I don't mean to sound greedy (I have no intention of selling anyway) but your offer did not really temp me. I only say this to give you an idea of how a COLLECTOR may feel about parting with even an ugly early example like mine! They are hard to replace.

[Bob Hritz]

there is no such thing as a 1957 issue or AWARD Knight'sCross ,or any other replacement Third Reich denazified award. Those soldiers, still in the military, could purchase adenazified version if they wanted. No one has been awarded the 1957 version.

90/100 of those awards were sold to collectors, according to my conversations with Steinhauer sales people back in the 1970's.

As of 1999, .the last time I was in Europe, there were 1957 awards all over, from Paris Flea Market to shops in Germany, Austria, and Italy.

Foolishly, I didn't buy any and now they are all gone.

I am still looking for 2 early 1957 Knight's Crosses and the 1957 German Cross stickpins to no avail.

Bob Hritz

[Henri S]

Hi Brien

I have noticed that all of a sudden early 57 RK have disappeared. A year or two ago I was spoilt for choice and refused a good number of S&L examples of these early ones. At one point I had met someone who had a box full of early S&Ls without loops, which he said came from a closed down or abondened S&L factory. I only bought one.

I have kept a Schickle and an S&L in my collection, but I have sold 3 or 4 early S&Ls to members of this forum.

Personally I think that there is more awareness of these early birds and collectors are snapping them up and treasuring them more, especially when they know that they can never own a real wartime issue and this is the closest they can get .

[Grant Broadhurst]

Hello Brien ,

Yes they are getting scarce on the ground and it is a combination of factors already mentioned above , i don't have one but would like one but not at the prices they are reaching

That was one reason i got into 57,s is that they were cheap but with the rise in interest all early pieces not just the RK have started to rocket !

I have an early second type piece worn by a Ritterkreuztrager which i paid £350 for but yes i would like a first type one which i will keep looking for .

I think also a lot of the first type RK,s are still in the possesion of the owners or their families , collectors snapping then up when they surface and limited run of these and we have a supply problem , i can see these reaching silly figures which is inevitable

[esquiroz]

Hello,

I am of the same opinion of most of the previous answers. I have been looking a lot of time for an "original" 1939 KC for a price i could pay.Result: No one.

So I began about three years ago to search for 1957 KC. Today I have about 14 pieces. Only 5 of them are very-early ones: Two Schikel(one 800 silber content and te other 835) and three S&L(two 800 amrked and one not being marked and belonging to Horts Hain) the other ones are, some of them 800 amrked and "early" ones, some of them coming from KC winners(erich Schmidt and Von Dreckmann)All the others are different ones, going for good to very bad, as they were made also of non silver materials and non ferrous cores. As it is very difficult in our days to find very´-early ones, I think that any one ho has one will sell it, even for that good price of 1.000.-€ if he don't need the money for other much more important and familiar things. One thing is a collector and another a dealer. Of course that is only my opinion. And also I think that really there are more"original" ones roulling that the very-early ones 57's

regards
Carlos

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Hi all

I bought mine because I know without winning the lottery I will NEVER own a TR one so this is the next best thing.

I was lucky - thanks Henri

Craig

[Henri S]

I bought mine because I know without winning the lottery I will NEVER own a TR one so this is the next best thing.

I was lucky - thanks Henri

Craig

Give it back

[Laurence Strong]

Well, they are still out there, this one went for a little more than 1\2 the $1000. you offered at the start of this thread.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1827

[Henri S]

Well, they are still out there, this one went for a little more than 1\2 the $1000. you offered at the start of this thread.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1827

I'm afraid that is not an early one though. It's an 80s edition.

Here is an early bird:

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Henri

You are right that the core is the second pattern, when did they first come out withh them? Did they make them withh 800 stamped frames in the 80's?

What do you think of the oaks and swords?

[jagdpanther]

I think that this "2nd" model of RK could be from late 60`s to early 70´s. What I know it depends on if the core is made out of iron or if the paint on the core is made before or after the frames were put together.

I don´t know if the cross discussed is an "early" 2nd one!

/peter

[Henri S]

The RK is a second pattern S&L. The 800 stamp did appear on most of these S&Ls, which could actually go back to the 70s. I had one like yours and they are very nicely constructed too.

The oaks, I'm afraid I do not like. Typical 1957 edition oaks with swords had the loop smaller, remaining behind the oaks and not extending down to where the swords are. If you look at the pictures you can see how the oaks are positioned with the RK because of this. Your oaks could actually have had the loop bent downwards. Still I must say I am not an expert when it comes to 1957 oaks. I use some guide lines and then let my instinct do the rest . Here is the back of the oaks with double markings.

Hi Henri

You are right that the core is the second pattern, when did they first come out withh them? Did they make them withh 800 stamped frames in the 80's?

What do you think of the oaks and swords?