Schinkel EKII With A 1914 EKII By Deumer

[hagwalther]

Fellow Members,

This might just be wishful thinking but does anyone see similarities between the frames of these two crosses?

Schinkel purchased a few years ago from Herr Niemann - non magnetic core.

1914 replacement award marked '3' on the ring purchased from the E-Stand about a year ago.

I also have an 'L/11' marked 1914 replacement award basically the same as the '3' shown below.

Size of all three medals are (as near as it gets) the same with dimensions East to West of 43.7 mm and North to South of 43.8.

While one may be accused of 'drawing a long bow', but part of me says 'Yes'...

Comments ?

[hagwalther]

Deumer ribbon ring.

[hagwalther]

Schinkel ribbon ring.

[George Stimson]

hagwalther

What similiarities do you see? You have the pieces in hand. Does the beading on all three crosses match perfectly?

[hagwalther]

Hi George,

The beading does not match perfectly but there is a small die flaw on both medals at the lefthand 'point' on the lower arm.

I've tried to post a couple of piccys for you to see.

I don't think they came from the same die but there are common similarities in both.

Note the 'web' on the lower inner frame below the '1939' and '1914' numbers.

When I look at my 1914 and 1939 EKII's by different makers one sees that they are quite different. These however, are quite similar in many ways but certainly are not exact copies.

I think all I'm saying at this point is that the frames of these two medals are the most similar that I have ever seen and one wonders if they are somehow related.

When I look at them by eye rather than magnifying glass they appear to be exactly the same. Under a glass however, differences are apparent but you have to look quite hard for them.

Regards ...

[hagwalther]

And the Deumer arm.

[George Stimson]

It's interesting that Deumer reverted to the Imperial-style frame when they made their TR-era 1914 EK 2s. On the First Class 1914 EKs they made during the Third Reich they used the larger, 1939-style frame. (Or at least they did on the "L/11" marked 1914 EK 1 that I have.)

[George Stimson]

Reverse.

[hagwalther]

Just a thought here.

If Deumer were making replacement 1914 EKII's BEFORE 1939 then it would have been very easy for them to produce 1939 EKII's by just changing the core giving us the Schinkel variant that we see today.

Regards ...

[hagwalther]

So, could Deumer have been the manufacturer of the Schinkel EKII ???

[George Stimson]

Here's the 1914 EK 2 as offered in Deumer's medal catalog.

[George Stimson]

And their 1939 version, from the catalog. (It looks "Schinkel-y" to me! )

[hagwalther]

And their 1939 version, from the catalog. (It looks "Schinkel-y" to me! )

Gee, Whizz.

Hey, George.

Have we discovered something here?



I always thought that the Shinkel makers were unknown...

Regards ...

[George Stimson]

"Have we discovered something here?"

Maybe we have! (I've got to spend more time studying my reference material.... )

[hagwalther]

Hey George,

As I have a bee in my bonnet re: identifying unknown EKII's - did you find any further information re: the Shinkel and Deumers 1914 replacement awards that I posted back in July?

Regards ...