HOW to determine pre/post S&L!

[Bob Hritz]

Dazzling cross, Harry. I would be pleased to own that, as I believe I have the twin brother.


Bob Hritz

[Dietrich Maerz]

Today I got the color copies of the Revue article, dated 23rd Mat 1953, from Dave! Thanks a lot, Dave!

Two things are interesting and belong clearly to this thread:

In this little box is say that the manufacture and the wearing of German war orders and medals is still not allowed. But some manufacturers have restarted production and one can buy thoses orders and medals in the Ruhr area. The article is about a Mr. Knoth in Essen who has a tabacco shop but his only a 'emercency' business. He - so the article - is trading with militaria since decades.

But he only sells to those who can show the proper documents of ownership (Wehrpass, award document)....


Dietrich
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[Dave Kane]

I guess you know me a bit too well!!!!!


I was going to suggest you place the pics here too!!!!

[Dietrich Maerz]

The other part is also interesting, maybe even more than the one above:


It starts of with talking about ribbons and the source (is says clearly that the wares he sells is NOT from old storage). The article then goes on to mention that sold out articles can be ordered and will be available in 4 weeks and then" sometimes Mr. Knoth sends his customers also directly to his main source Steinhauer and Lueck" and it also states that S&L also manufactures the new merit orders of the Federal Republic of Germany.

In the light that Detlev considers the "935" (a high silver grade award) "nicht gut" one could venture to say that this was one of the supplied awards. The article mentions two grades of the Ritterkreuz, "echt" and "unecht". "Echt" (real) is explained as "with Silver frame", no mentioning of what "unecht" (unreal) might be but I guess it would describe at least a non-silver frame and maybe even a non-iron core.

Fact is: S&L supplied two grades of the Ritterkreuz in 1953. Echt and unecht, the price being 32 DM resp. 19 DM, both w/o ribbon!

Those are the B-Types, silver frame and Neusilver frames, IMHO!


Dietrich
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[Dave Kane]

Dietrich...I think you are being too kind here!!!


Again, I must bow to your native tongue but years ago I took from this box.....AUTHENTIC and FAKE and realized even then (they) knew the difference...evidenced by the disparity in cost!!!

Post the 'price list'!!!!!

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here's the price list.

There is a distinction between "echt Silber" (real silver) and "unecht" which I clearly read in this context as "non silver". The same applies to the oaks with swords, by the way.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Dietrich thanks for the literate translation....I can only limp along with the language!


That said however, the trade in post war Crosses is as old as the article, at least.

Collectors just wouldn't listen and the dealers or traders in these plainly took advantage.

[Dave Kane]

To highlight the issue...........there has been a cross offered for the last couple of years at a show in Pomona CA.

It started at $5k in a $9k world ( I tried to buy the case and ribbon as they were fine ) and from there because the seller had his ear to the grindstone regarding value, it next jumped to $5.5k....no sale!

This time around the asking price was $6.6k.......in a $12k world!

Some of the Calif. based collectors would have looked at this set but it remained where it was

Why?

[Harry]

Dietrich has asked me to post more pics of the 800 marked cross I posted last (Post #72 on)........No lower 3 o'clock arm dent row... a so called Die A cross....

[Harry]

another.... 9-12 o'clock junction...

[Harry]

Here is another cross, earlier than the heavily frosted cross..... again 800 marked, iron core, 'flawless', so called Die A characteristics..weighing in at over 30g...

[Harry]

reverse..........

[Harry]

closer on the 'eye' and hallmark.......

[Harry]

so I would have put this cross as earlier than the previous, judging by the finishing on the 'eye' and the ribbon loop ends.......but, look at the lower 3'oclock arm beading.....is this the row of dents in the early stages???????

[tom hansen]

so I would have put this cross as earlier than the previous, judging by the finishing on the 'eye' and the ribbon loop ends.......but, look at the lower 3'oclock arm beading.....is this the row of dents in the early stages???????

Harry- I have that same bit of dots on my 800 "A" type cross. Take a look at the bottom of the 9 oclock arm as well. It is not as pronounced, but there is evidence of the same effect.