Bronze PAB Question
I posted this on Feldgrau.com but got no answer: If an assault gunner who had a bronze Panzer Assault Badge was transferred or promoted to a panzer assignment, did they recieve a silver PAB as a replacement or continue to wear the bronze version? If so, are there any pics of the bronze version being worn on a panzer wrap? Thanks in advance.
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Hi
He would keep his badge, although in general an assault gunner had a General assault badge and not a Bronze panzer badge. -
Hi,
I agree with Chris on both points :
1- he would have keep his badge
2- a Assault gunner should be awarded in theory a GAB. However, from mid December 44, some specific units from the Sturmartillerie were entitled to wear the silver PAB (crews from Brummbar units for example). Sorry but I have not my doc with me to provide the full list of these units. Maybe another forum memeber will be able to do it.
If my memory serves, I remember a photo of Max Wunsche wearing on his black panzer wrapper a IAB (that he had probably won during the French campaign). So I suppose that genrally speaking, the soldier keep his original kampfabzeichen (whatever it can be, IAB, GAB or PAB).
Hope this helps
DenisComment
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In general, these badges and medals are awards - even the Luftwaffe qualification badges - and as such were the property of the recipient.
Just because sometimes later he was awarded what would appear to be a "conficting" award that didn't mean he had to return one of them.
After all, he had still earned them both and was entitled to keep and wear them (keep them at least, there are a few exceptions to the wearing of various awards).
Regards,
Tim
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SS-Oscha. Ernst Barkmann of 2. SS-Panzer Regiment in "Das Reich" always wore the IAB (at least in photos) that he had won earlier, even though he had received the PAB and qualified for the PAB "25" and "50." I'm not sure that he was actually awarded the numbered PAB, at least by the time that most of his familiar photos were taken (summer and fall of '44), but he had received the basic PAB.
I've heard that he valued the IAB higher than the PAB because it was harder to earn (sorry, can't quote this, I'm sitting at work).
GregComment
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I have seen in a Regimentals catalogue a group offered from a "Deutschland" veteran containing some pages of his Soldbuch and he was awarded three different assault badges, Infantry in Silver and both Panzers, silver and bronze. Unafortunately I never owned a group or Soldbuch/Wehrpass from a man qualificated to two or more Assault badges, I have some man transfered and later awarded bravery or campaign medals, but retaining his Assault badge.
Cheers
AngelLooking for DKiG Heer winner Soldbuch who also won the TDB and/or CCC, specially in Silver.Comment
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Perhaps not the correct place to ask this question but please correct me if Im in wrong section.
Here is the question; The Award Criteria for the tank destruction badge mention that Anti-tank units were not eligible for this award. Yet I have seen Stug. personell with this award mounted on their fieldgrey wrappers on period photos. And I personally have handled a fieldgrey sturmartillerie wrapper with original period applied badge.
Is Stug crew not Anti-tank units?
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Hi Carl, here is my take on it. Stug crews could be classed as artillery, so they could qualify. If they were Pz Jager (with feldgrau jackets) they would not.
Cheers, Ade.Comment
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Thanks for the comment Adrian, If I understand you correct, fieldgrey Panzerjäger wrappers who had pink piping would not classified to tank destruction badge, but fieldgrey Sturmartillerie wrappers with red piping would classified, since they are classed as artillery?
I presume that Recon units would be classified to?Comment
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Hi Carl, yes that is how I would understand it
It is a complex subject. Reccon units I am sure quailified for the badge.
Cheers, Ade.Comment
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Hi guys-
It is my understanding that the:
IAB in Silver was for the Infanterie (foot soldiers)
IAB in Bronze was for Panzer-Grenadiers (armored infantry that rode into combat in halftracks)
PAB in Silver for Panzer (actual tank) crewmembers (Panther, Tiger I, etc)
PAB in Bronze was for crewmembers of armored vehicles (SdKfz.222, SdKfz.251, etc)
Tracked Panzerjäger (i.e. Jagdpanzer IV L/70, Nashorn, Jagdpanther, etc), Assault Gun (StuG.III, StuG.IV, etc) and Panzer Artillary crewmembers (Hummel, Wespe, etc) were technically eligible for the GAB but could be awarded the PAB in bronze OR silver at the company commander's recommendation...
Does any of this sound correct?
I have a GAB document to a StuG.III crewmember from Pz.Jg.Abt.69 who was awarded the GAB, and I have never personally seen an award document for a PAB in silver for a tracked Panzerjäger or armored artillary crewmember.
Here's a question - were Panzer-Grenadiers (not halftrack crewmembers, but strictly armored infantry) awarded the PAB in bronze in place of the IAB in bronze? I have several Panzer-Grenadier Soldbücher with PAB in bronze award entries, but only one late-war (KIA Feb '45) with a IAB in bronze. I have seen a handfull of early-war IAB in bronze award docs to Panzer-Grenadiers, but the PAB in bronze entries and documents seem to have been awarded in much greater numbers. Or, maybe it's just me...
Confusing, to say the least !!!
RobComment
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Anyone else?Comment
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Ok... 9 days without any further input??? Somebody please reply if for no other reason so I don't see my name every time I view the main page and scroll down past the "Archived Medals, Orders and Decorations posts" forum
RobComment
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