'57 Ribbon Bar Order of Precedence

[Skyhawk]

Hi All,

The ribbon bar shown by Rudy (incredibly magnificent!) got me thinking about 1957 ribbon bars and the order of the ribbons. Is there an order of precedence chart as I have not seen? The TR ribbon order of precence can be used, however it would not account for the ribbons which now represent cuff titles, badges, and campaign shields. Also, what would dictate one badge ribbon or campaign ribbon being placed higher than another? Could the recipient choose a little freedom in the placement?

I look forward to the comments!

[Tom B]

IMO...Since many 57 ribbons do represent cuff titles etc, and the Bundeswehr did not award these, I can see a certain amount of latitude how an individual might make his own choice of what went where in terms of combat type badges. Of course the RK, DK, EK were strictly followed. I KNOW that US ribbon bars are Strictly regulated and the "written" reg's must be followed...YET I have seen mistakes even there as a result of an individual not knowing or caring what the reg's called for. Tom

[Skyhawk]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the response! I looked up what I could find about the Ordensgesetz of 1957 and Section 12 does list some order of precedence. It seems the order of conferment is often followed except for specifically named medals. Makes perfect sense for the EK/DK/RK series as they almost always are conferred in a sequential date order. Where it gets interesting is with campaign badges/cuff titles, etc. I looked up the service record of Oberst Schirmer and the ribbons do not follow the order of conferment as the Kreta and Afrika would be reversed for instance. I guess there was some level of personal choice in the ribbon placement. As Tom stated, very different from the US military as the medal/ribbon order or precedence is strictly followed. I can attest to that from my Air Force days!

[speedytop]

Hi,

"Could the recipient choose a little freedom in the placement?"

Yes, he could. But only in the different "sections".

The basic regulation (Ordensgesetz §12 (1)) say, that in the sections it should be in chronological order (... in der Reihenfolge ihrer Verleihung).

I mean here the sections
(1) "Nahkampf-, Frontflug-, Marine-Spangen und Kampfabzeichen mit Einsatzzahlen",
(2) "Sturm-, Kampf- oder Kriegsabzeichen einschließlich der Schilde" and
(3) "Leistungs- und Tätigkeitsabzeichen".
*The numbering (1), (2) and (3) is my personal choice for this thread.*

But you have to seperate the different sections.

Oberst Schirmer had his own order of precedence. He mixed some decorations in the sections (2) and (3).
It is not a problem for Kreta and Afrika, because it was in the same section (2); Kreta was "higher" for him.

But it was definitely wrong, to arrange the Fallschirmschützenabzeichen from section (3) before the other decoration in section (2).
To be correct, he had to change the Fallschirmschützenabzeichen with the Flak-Kampfabzeichen.

But no one would tell him, that he had to change it! That is the real life.

Uwe

[Nigel N]

Hi!
Tthe order for medals was pretty much the same as wartime, the Hindy and KVK2 were swapped around, and the new BVK now outranked the EK, cufftitles, shields etc sometimes are seen before war and qualification badges, sometimes after, then its KVK2, Ost, Long Service, Flood medals and so on, with foreign awards last, again the same as wartime!
Don't be surprised to see many ribbonbars which are out of order, its not unusual!!
-Nigel