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    #1

    KvK2 With Swords

    Here's a somewhat interesting KVK2 w/swords.

    It appears to be early, maybe very early production. It's mostly free of die flaws. It has a few areas missed in the finishing process, which could be mistaken for die flaws, but actual die flaws are few IMO.

    It's very dark in color, has a massive jump ring and is very light in weight at 19.55g not including the ribbon.

    Also of interest, the ribbon is very nicely sewn and folded and shows holes from a where a pin was apparently used for wear.

    I'll add it to our KvK2 reference thread for future use, but felt it was unique enough to have it's own thread.

    Nigel, you've put quite a bit of study time into these. What do you make of this one?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Mike Yokum; 07-08-2012, 02:21 PM.
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    #2
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      #3
      ...
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        #4
        Nice one.

        The upper left swords grip has a bigger flaw on but looking at the wide suspension loop ring i would date it early to very early.

        But i haven´t studied these very deep and so i can be wrong......but it´s a nice keeper

        Comment

          #5
          Thanks Rüdiger!

          Yes, the sword hilts have some flaws or "flashing" as some call it. On the reverse, the upper right hilt has some of the same.

          Notice the ridge of the 4 o'clock cross arm is completely free of flaws. That is one area we usually see as most flawed on S&L KvK's.

          I agree that it's early enough to be a keeper!

          Comment

            #6
            Hi Mike!! A keeper for sure, looks to be early and quality!!
            the finish looks a little different to any KVK2's i've seen!!!!!
            Could you take a close(ish) pic of the suspension ring from the side, so we can see the shape of it!!
            I'll try and compare with a few examples i have and see if it matches any, but i really like it Mike, it was a great pick-up on your part!!!!
            -Nigelsign0087.gif
            sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

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              #7
              Mike you have been busy lately
              the style of the date and the thickness of the suspension ring look to me to be a deumer kvk2 but the sword hilts and crossguards look like a S&L hmmmm interesting
              very nice pickup Mike

              best regards
              tom

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                #8
                Thanks for the input gents. I'm wondering about this one. A third maker?

                Here are some shots of the suspension ring for you Nigel. Do they tell you anything?
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                  #9
                  Hi Mike!!
                  Thanks for the excellent pics!!
                  They are telling me plenty, its just a shame i dont fully understand what they are saying!!!
                  The suspension ring is virtually identical to the KVK2 i have that i thought was a Deumer, but unlike the "Deumer" yours has a flat area in the sword handles, whereas the Deumer has a central raised spine in that area!!
                  The S&L types have the same flat sword handle, but different suspension rings!!
                  The answer may lie in the pebbling, i'll try and compare that tomorrow!!
                  Sometimes things are'nt always what they seem, if one maker, for whatever reason, borrowed or bought a die from another, and then finished it in their own style, we would be left with a piece that looks partly like one maker, partly like another, but not quite identical to either!!!
                  One things for sure Mike, at the moment, its "maker unknown" for me!!!
                  What is the size of the central disc Mike, measured from the outside edges of the wreath, straight across the middle??
                  -Nigel017.gif
                  sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
                    One things for sure Mike, at the moment, its "maker unknown" for me!!!
                    Aha! Well, for the time being we'll settle on that. Like you, I think the pebbling will tell us much more! I look forward to your analysis!

                    Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
                    What is the size of the central disc Mike, measured from the outside edges of the wreath, straight across the middle??
                    -Nigel
                    I thought you might ask for that so I already jiffied up a pic for you!

                    I actually took several measurements to ensure an accurate representation. Here it is...
                    Attached Files

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                      #11
                      Hi Mike!! Thats about what i thought!!!
                      The central disc is a pretty good match to this one...........
                      013.jpg
                      But the suspension ring and sword handles dont match that type......
                      015.JPG
                      sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

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                        #12
                        The suspension ring appears identical to this one......
                        006.JPG
                        But the central disc is...............way off!!
                        014.jpg
                        sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
                          Hi Mike!! Thats about what i thought!!!
                          The central disc is a pretty good match to this one...........

                          But the suspension ring and sword handles dont match that type......
                          Nice work Holmes, but the plot thickens!

                          We haven't even discussed the color as of yet. Ya gotta love this hobby! 57er's can really keep a guy on his toes!

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                            #14
                            aaahhh!!! The finish!!!!
                            No, we have'nt mentioned that, and with good reason!!!
                            It does'nt look like any 57 KVK2 i've ever seen, a really dark tone to the bronze. often i try and use the finish on a KVK2 to help ID a maker, but with this one.......... No help there i'm afraid!!!!!!
                            -Nigel
                            sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Yes, it's a puzzler!

                              It's actually darker in hand than in the pics!

                              Here are some direct sunlight shots to help represent the cross...
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