Interesting 2nd pattern KC ( double bleeding flaw )

[Matthieu]

Hi chaps,

Sorry I haven't been around that much lately, but really busy at work.
Now, enjoying a holiday, hoping to make up by posting some interesting items .

We all like a bargain, so I could not resist buying this mint cased set .
Even though a 2nd pattern cored piece, its apparently a variant still missing in my collection.
Not only does it have the "bleeding flaw" on the 9 o'clock arm, but there is another one on the 12 o'clock arm .

I'll explain during posting .... first up some general impressions of the KC ...

For the record ..... 2nd pattern core ( magnetic ), made by St&L ( 3-piece made ).

Grtz
Mathijs

[Matthieu]

Dates ......

[Matthieu]

Some shots of the core ...

[Matthieu]

Good view on the 3 o'clock dent row flaw ...

[Matthieu]

And the shot with the etui .... 2nd pattern etui ( flat bottom ) with full length mint 1957 KC ribbon.

[Matthieu]

And now for the bleeding flaw ......

Found on the 9 o'clock arm, the "bleeding flaw" gets its name as its "bleeding" out from the top beading onto the middle step, creating drop like feature on the KC.

Its a flaw mainly found on KC having the 2nd pattern core, although I've recently encountered one holding 1st pattern core.

Interesting KC, which is yet another variant on the "C" frame - IMO a variant worth collecting.

[Matthieu]

But .....

On this particular KC, there is yet another bleeding flaw, and this I have not seen before on any KC ....

Perhaps a faulty strike of the frame or perhaps the die got very bad, who will say.
Nevertheless its an interesting variant worth showing here ( IMO ).

This particular flaw can be found on the top side ( 12 o'clock arm ) - left side, and is worse then the 9 o'clock arm.

Would appreciate further input from the KC guys in here as to placing / dating this KC .... .

Thanks for looking,
Mathijs

[Nigel N]

Hi Mathijs!!
Firstly, thanks for posting this variant, its one i can't remember seeing before!!
The RK overall, looks very nice, quality and finish look good? And the core paint seems to have a quite textured, rougher looking finish to it, than the smoother paint we more often see, looks really nice because of that!
The later C frames seemed to be tidied up and lost most of their die flaws, might even have been a D frame eventually to replace it, but this one still has the dent row, and bleedover on the 9 o'clock arm, so it should'nt be a later one at all i would'nt think??
I dont think as much time and study has been given to the 2nd pattern RK's, when compared with the 1st pattern, and i'm sure there are lots of things still to discover, this extra bleeding on the 12 o'clock arm, is perhaps just one of them!!
As i said, not something i've seen before, dont know if anyone else has, but its a great variant, i really like it!!!
-Nigel

[xmember]

Hello Mathijs,

I love threads like this where you show all the flaws in great detail. My eyes are not so good so thanks for doing a great job in showing this one. Hopefully someone out there can answer your dating question.
Regards
Rudy

[Tom C.]

im with rudy its brilliant the way you explain everything especially for me as a relative rk newbie its a very interesting rk thanks for sharing


best regards
tom

[Seewolf]

Very interesting variant you show.

As Nigel said, overall finish looks good, especially the core has a fantastic detailled rough look.

Because of the rough paint, the finish of the frame, i would date it mid 70s.
The beading flaw on the frame at 12 o´clock is for me the first i see on that position. Reminds me on the beading flaw on Klein & Quenzer RK´s.....but that one has only 3 dots.

Maybe Gentry jumps in here and has an idea ?

[luftkrieg]

Hi Mathijs

Very nice KC! And I am also glad to read that you got a bargain.

I do enjoy your details photos explaining the flaws- a great help to us all I think!

Best regards
Pierce

[Tom B]

Just checked mine.

Well I just checked mine and it has the dent row & the bleedover at 9 o' clock, but nothing at the 12 o'clock. I know mine was purchsed by the recipient in 1973 for sure. I first saw it in 1975 at his home. I wonder how may more variations are out there ? Great find for your collection ! Tom

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Mathijs,

You aptly named this thread for sure! It is a VERY interesting RK!

First, it's a great looking cross. As has been said, the paint on the core is quite pleasing to the eye. The frame is nicely finished too. The solder joints look a bit open in places, but it doesn't detract from the beauty of the piece. Overall, I'd give it an 9 out of 10 for looks.

On to the your photos and the flaws...
Excellent photos, representation of the flaws, the associated terminology and their meaning. I felt like I was at a seminar on RK's and their characteristics! Superb job Mathijs! You would make an excellent teacher/trainer.

The 12 o'clock bleeding flaw is a first for me too. I think you found one of the most collectible 2nd Pattern RK's around! It sure makes the hobby fun to find such a rarity and you've got a winner here for sure!

Hopefully, others with 2nd Pattern RK's will examine them and give some feedback. I too would love to hear Gentry's take on the piece.

All in all, a terrific find buddy! You've managed to land a great 2nd Pattern RK with some mystery surrounding it. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what develops.

[David Hawkins]

With or without the flaws, this a lovely RK. The core looks absolutely fantastic.

Great purchase.

Dave