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    #16
    I am not sure why they did that.

    As I know, the blue ribbon bar was awarded before 1932 and the blue
    after with the version of cross you have on your mini medal bar.
    The grad should be the knight cross but the miniatures are all different.
    I have a ribbon bar without any miniature on the red ribbon bar.

    Imo the knowledge or the regulation of foreign awards were not that
    good or explicit defined, so they constellate the bars in different ways with
    different miniatures (or if possible, with different variants of ribbons).

    It is here great to see that one person got so many different versions.

    Comment

      #17
      You are right Matthias that there is a slightly different ribbon for pre and post 1932 awards, but also in times of war, a gold stripe was added to the edges of the ribbon, as seen on one of these medalbars, but to add to the confusion, the red ribbon with blue edges replaced the other blue/white ribbon when awarded for bravery!! So all that coupled with the many different classes of this medal make things very interesting!!!
      I think all the crown orders on the various bars should have the same ribbon, i'd guess the red/blue bravery version? Maybe when the other ribbonbar was made they did'nt have the correct ribbon???
      A great combination whatever the story!!!!
      -Nigelsmiley-gen053.gif
      sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

      Comment

        #18
        Luud, it´s getting better every friday

        Wonderful honest and complete group of a brave officer

        That RK is one of the nicest i´ve ever seen Drilled out eye and perfect frosting on the frame, really great.

        Ribbon bars....well, you know that´s it´s rare to get all bars from one guy as they mostly had more than one bar. And mostly they were sold piece by piece but you got all bars ....so you´ll not see "your" bar in another collection.

        Mini chain as usual impressing and very nice (i love these mini chains )

        What i like most is always the foreign awards as these makes a bar very special IMO.
        Sadly the foreign awards are not my field to judge which grade or what date of issue but for that we still have Matthias


        Looking forward to next friday....extremely curious

        Comment

          #19
          Luud,

          All I can say is amazing!!!! Especially those ribbon bars!

          Best regards
          Pierce

          Comment

            #20
            Question

            Hello Guys, Beautiful Group ! I love the Knights Cross ! My question is : why did S&L place the silver mark on the bottom of some of thier RK's instead of the top ??????? I've always wondered about this, so nows the time to ask . Thanks !

            Comment

              #21
              Originally posted by Tom B View Post
              Hello Guys, Beautiful Group ! I love the Knights Cross ! My question is : why did S&L place the silver mark on the bottom of some of thier RK's instead of the top ??????? I've always wondered about this, so nows the time to ask . Thanks !
              Once i heard that the one with 800 mark on the top were produced before 1957....even in wartime up to 1945 and are leftover wartime parts.
              The 800 marked at the bottom were "normal" in 1957 produced pieces.

              But that is only what someone told me. It was an experienced dealer that i don´t want to name

              But interesting question i think, maybe someone has another answer for that?

              Comment

                #22
                WOW Luud! Your collection is second to none!

                This is a fantastic grouping to a great man! Most has been said, but I would add that to get the original box that the mini's came in is also a great addition. I think you have more than one.

                The RK case also looks like the best of the best. The frosting on that RK could be EATEN WITH A FORK!

                Nigel mentioned the Ehrenblatt mini on the EKII ribbon. A really nice touch!

                Friday is a fun day here at home on the WAF!

                Comment

                  #23
                  Wow ... only our Dutchmen could come up with such a marvellous group .
                  One would need to stare at that KC ... nice to see another one with the bottom "800" mark.
                  As to why some are marked beneath the loop eye and other bottom frame ... who knows.

                  Great items ... I do like the ribbon bars and mini-medals as well, these are all great quality.

                  Thanks for sharing, buddy .... hope to see more next Friday .

                  Grtz
                  Mathijs

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Thank you all for the compliments, much appreciated.

                    I planned to post a single badge or cross next week because I don't have enough groupings to make it till the end of this year.
                    So maybe I think I made a mistake posting such a group already because it looks that the expectations become very high for next friday.
                    But don't worrie, next week there will be something posted that is also very nice.

                    Mike: You are right about the case. It is not the only box that I have. Maybe nice to use for funny friday.

                    Rudiger; You are right that there was mostly 1 or more bars left in a nachlass (what I have seen mostly 2 or 3) and sadly most is sold seperately.
                    Most groupings have been completely splitted. But in this case I am sure that I won't see one of his bars in another collection.

                    Tom; I am not sure why they marked 800 on the bottem or top.
                    From what I have seen, I think that they simultaniously stamped 800 on top as well as on bottem in the very early days and from the early sixties they only stamped them on top.

                    Nigel: Now you mention it, it is indeed nice to see the Ehrenblatt miniauture from a feldspange used on a medal bar.
                    I can't remember that I have seen it more often.



                    I googled for a few hours for the Romanian Crown order, but it is still not very clear to me.
                    I will copy some text that I found on the internet about the ribbons and degrees,.

                    The order had five classes:
                    •1st class - Grand Cross (limited to 25) worn on a sash from the right shoulder to left waist
                    •2nd class - Grand Officer (limited to 80) worn on the neck
                    •3rd class - Commander (limited to 150) worn on the neck
                    •4th class - Officer (limited to 300) worn on left breast
                    •5th class - Knight (unlimited) worn on left breast

                    Before 1932 the ribbon was blue with a 6 mm silver stripe set 3 mm from each side. The officer grade includes the addition of a blue and silver rosette on the ribbon.
                    From 1932 to 1947 the ribbon was blue with a single central white stripe also for instances when the Order was awarded for bravery, the ribbon of the medal of 'Military Virtue' was substituted. This ribbon was red, bordered on each edge with 5 mm light blue stripes. The 'Military Virtue' ribbon was authorized only for the Knight (Chevalier) and Officer grades of the order.

                    So it looks like they were allowed to use the blue ribbon also, but only on the 4th and 5th class.

                    The wearer (wich was born in Romania) was awarded the 3rd class (commander) on 15.11.1942 as a verbindungsoffizier of the VI Armeecoprs at Slalingrad.
                    So I think they did make a mistake that they used the blue ribbon on a commander cross!
                    But probably the makers of the bars didn't know it or they just used whatever they had around!

                    Comment

                      #25
                      It is interesting Luud, that it should be the commander cross.

                      I have searched also again, because it is very interesting to know the grades
                      and the different versions. The best side I found is here.

                      So the red ribbon was only for knights and officer grades with swords for bravery.
                      Than the right ribbon should be here the blue with the additional yellow war stripes.
                      Would be very interesting if it was everywhere defined how the differnet grades
                      should be on the ribbon bars and the mini medal bars.

                      Imo for the commander grade the breast star should be shown, to differate
                      it form the knight cross.

                      But as said, it shows that the knowledge or the regulations for the ribbon
                      bar manufacturers were not so good.

                      Regarding the Ehrenblattspange it looks indeed nice, when they use a 9mm miniature
                      instead of an extra ribbon with 16mm miniature.

                      Yes it is hard to top but you know for sure that we 57er are happy of all nice
                      "stuff" we will see.

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Arthur Spooner View Post
                        The best side I found is here.

                        So the red ribbon was only for knights and officer grades with swords for bravery.
                        Than the right ribbon should be here the blue with the additional yellow war stripes.
                        Would be very interesting if it was everywhere defined how the differnet grades
                        should be on the ribbon bars and the mini medal bars.
                        Now I finally understand it!
                        So he had to have the blue type of ribbon with yellow war stripes!
                        And they made the mistake on the 2 earliest bars!

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Supergroup!!

                          And the Spangen.....

                          Karl

                          Comment

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