Later issue '57 Cased Knights Cross

[bobcam1]

Hi,
This later issue '57 Cased Knights Cross came to me today, courtesy of Dave Kane (thanks, Dave!) and I'm happy to show it off here. Opinions and comments welcome.

Thanks,
Bob.

[DavidM]

Hello

I've replied to your post in the crosses forum as well, but here are my comments from there.

This looks to me like one of the later produced 2nd pattern S&L 57 RKs. Not the latest, but certainly one of the later 2nd patterns.

With a non magnetic core this is one of the later 2nd pattern S&L 57 RKs. The first 2nd patterns still had a magnetic core, although this was soon dropped in favour of either a tombak type core or ones using some sort of non ferous material.

I'd hazard a guess, that this is from around the mid 1970's. A nice piece.

Regards
David

[New World]

I talked to Dave K about this cross he was selling.

He was very straightforward about it, told me right away the cross was pre-1980 and non-magnetic.

It's nice set if you were looking for late one.

William

[CSForrester]

Hello Bob,

is it a 3-piece construction with separate frame-halfes and core ? Please try so push a thin piece of paper between core and frame to prove it.

Thanks and regards
CSForrester

[bobcam1]

Hello Bob,

is it a 3-piece construction with separate frame-halfes and core ? Please try so push a thin piece of paper between core and frame to prove it.

Thanks and regards
CSForrester

It's definitely of 3-piece construction, as the seams are quite evident, but it's made too well to slip anything between the seams.

Bob.

[CSForrester]

Astonishing, i have had 8 different KCs from the first to the last model in my collection, but it was always possible to push a piece of paper for 2 or 3mm under the frame.
Also very unusual the surface of the core, with the fine pebbled structure. How do you recognize, that it is a seperate core ?
What would you say about this, 2 or 3 pieces ?
Two !
Regards
CSForrester

[DavidM]

Hello

If you look at the first photo in this thread, that is the one of the RK being discussed, where the ribbon loop eye on the top of the frame is, it appears to very slightly misaligned, which suggests at least two piece construction.

Look again at this photo, in particular the 9 O'clock arm. Where the core meets the beaded rim, it looks like the paint overlaps from the core onto the edge of the rim all the way round. If this is the case, this would explain why Bob can't slip anything between the core and frame.

Bob, can you please confirm (or not as the case may be), if this is so.

Regards
David

[bobcam1]

Hello

If you look at the first photo in this thread, that is the one of the RK being discussed, where the ribbon loop eye on the top of the frame is, it appears to very slightly misaligned, which suggests at least two piece construction.

Look again at this photo, in particular the 9 O'clock arm. Where the core meets the beaded rim, it looks like the paint overlaps from the core onto the edge of the rim all the way round. If this is the case, this would explain why Bob can't slip anything between the core and frame.

Bob, can you please confirm (or not as the case may be), if this is so.

Regards
David

David..... this is, indeed, the case. There is no space to place any type of shim, paper or otherwise, due to the core paint meeting the frame. The cross is definitely of 3-piece construction, though.
As you stated, you can see at the loop eye, where the slight misalignment of the frame halves is evident.

Bob.

[CSForrester]

I think the cross consists of two halfes, a two-piece-fake. Sorry, but there are no facts that make this a late Steinhauer-Knights-Cross.

Regards
CSForrester

[Franco]

Hi,
Ive also have early thru to late S&L crosses and none of them have a paint job like this one.
My first impression on seeing it was that it had been repainted.
Cheers

[bobcam1]

I think the cross consists of two halfes, a two-piece-fake. Sorry, but there are no facts that make this a late Steinhauer-Knights-Cross.

Regards
CSForrester

I'm inclined to trust the judgment of Dave Kane, and my own eye. Thanks for offering your thoughts, though.

Bob.

[ApathyL]

Im no high expert, only that I just have seen a few crosses (EK,RK, ect..) but when the paint meets the ribs.. even if its well made it should never meet, its physically not possible.... Its hard though to tell from a few photos that original or not..If I knew a cross with that effect I would stay away from it.
Maybe im wrong..but 99.99% of the crosses are like that..anyway all the best :

Les.

[CSForrester]

quote: I'm inclined to trust the judgment of Dave Kane, and my own eye. Thanks for offering your thoughts, though.

Bob.

The cross has found the perfect owner and if you love it keep it. But dont tell it to other collectors, anyone who will pay more than 50,- $ for such an item is throwing money away.
I would be glad to hear the judgement of Mr. Kane, that the shown piece is a product from Steinhauer & Lueck with a seperate die-struck core.

Regards
CSForrester

[DavidM]

Hello

Bob, is it possible to post a side on shot in a similar way to that shown in post #6 by CSForrester.

Les, the later made 57 RKs, and EKs, were painted after being soldered together, so it is quite common on late made pieces for the paint to overlap onto the frame and so seal the edge between the frame and the core.

Finally, I have learnt that CSForrester has a very good 'hands on' working knowledge of these 57 items. Dave Kane also has a very good 'hands on' working knowledge of RKs, but I suspect this is more inclined to the WW2 made ones, and the very early 57 ones, rather than the late 57s. If CSForrester is casting doubts on the piece it would be prudent to heed what is being said.

Regards
David

[Dave Kane]

Hello all! As you may recall I (originally) bought this Cross as I was interested in the attached S&L Oaks. I don't collect '57 awards but there's that 'grey area' involving the Oaks.

The frames are indeed made by S&L and is obvious to those who are aware of the many 'fingerprints' utilized to affirm this. On a war time frame there are no less than 25 of these very unique 'prints' however, over time and possibly as many as 40+ years many have disappeared due to wear, repair etc.

A very faint remnant of the so called dent row associated with the refurbished S&L die and first seen in the 935/4 RK is present as is the 'split' in the 6oc arm.