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    #1

    Views on these Oakleaves w/ Swords pls

    Hi all,
    I now know that this set is not pre 45. Is it possible they are a 57 set or just a copy?

    Regards,
    AB.
    Attached Files
    In memory of my Uncle,
    Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
    2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
    Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.
    Tags: None
    #2
    2.
    Attached Files
    In memory of my Uncle,
    Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
    2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
    Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

    Comment

      #3
      3.
      Attached Files
      In memory of my Uncle,
      Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
      2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
      Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

      Comment

        #4
        4.
        Attached Files
        In memory of my Uncle,
        Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
        2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
        Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

        Comment

          #5
          Last one. Thanks,
          AB.
          Attached Files
          In memory of my Uncle,
          Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
          2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
          Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

          Comment

            #6
            Hi AB,

            oakleaves with swords, made post 1945, are always copies or fakes.

            It could not be a 57 version, because there is no change of the design.

            Regards
            Uwe

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by speedytop View Post
              Hi AB,

              oakleaves with swords, made post 1945, are always copies or fakes.

              It could not be a 57 version, because there is no change of the design.

              Regards
              Uwe
              Hi Uwe,

              Sorry, badly worded on my behalf. What I want to know is; are they a 57 set or not? Your opinion is that they are not which I accept but can you tell me what changes were done in the design to the 57 version?

              AB
              In memory of my Uncle,
              Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
              2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
              Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

              Comment

                #8
                Hello Andrew, what I think Uwe means is there did not need to be a change in the design as there was no banned symbol.
                Technically therefore you can't have a 57er type as there was no need for one to be made.
                Am I correct Uwe?

                Jess

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hi Jesse and Andrew,

                  it is the problem in this section.

                  It is named in heading and subtitle:

                  "1957 Awards - Wehrmacht Awards reissued in 1957 without the Swastika"

                  That is partial wrong, because these pieces were not awarded and/or not reissued.

                  Correct is, without the Swastika.
                  But, only the decorations which have been changed in the design can be meant.

                  Only these were 1957 versions:

                  http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5...ersionsxq9.jpg

                  And there you cannot find the oakleaves with swords, because it is not a 1957 version, (Jesse) "...there did not need to be a change in the design as there was no banned symbol."

                  And, please accept, there were copies/fakes of the oakleaves with swords before 1957, at the time of the "Ordensgesetz" from 1957, and afterwards till this day.

                  And, Andrew, I think, that the specialists in this section can tell you the period, your oakleaves with swords were produced.


                  Regards
                  Uwe

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by speedytop View Post


                    And, Andrew, I think, that the specialists in this section can tell you the period, your oakleaves with swords were produced.


                    Regards
                    Uwe
                    Thanks Jesse.

                    Thanks Uwe.

                    This is exactly what I'm trying to find out. Was my set made 1n 1957? Are there signs on the pieces made in 57 that are NOT found on ones made later???

                    AB.
                    Last edited by andrewb; 08-31-2007, 07:26 PM.
                    In memory of my Uncle,
                    Schtz.Grenadier KARL HOFBAUER,
                    2 Kompanie, Inf-Bat, 550.
                    Killed in action, Krasnoje, Minsk, 7. Nov. 1942.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      AB, Davidm and especially Peter wiking are the guys to go into detail on this question.
                      I myself have a 57er oakleaves with swords, bought from Detlev. I saw Peter declare them as 70's-80's manufacture before I bought them, but decided to buy anyway as I was at the stage of desperately wanting any reasonable 57er award. I would not do so again. Mine are similar to yours.

                      Jess

                      Comment

                        #12
                        The first you should look at is the reverse if you want a set from around 1957. The reverse of those will be very similar to those made during the third reich. The reverse should be as the inner surface of a table spoon.

                        The set shown above is grinded and polished on the reverse all over. You can see that were the swords attach to the oaks. Look close and you can see that the swords, despite being grinded/polished flat on the reverse, still show signs of pitting and irregularities. We are talking about a casting here in one form or another. The oaks above is in my opinion made in the 1970's or 1980's, but not from striking method. It is possible that they are from St&L.

                        I would look for a set with the features that i described at the start of this reply.

                        Peter
                        Last edited by Peter Wiking; 08-31-2007, 12:32 PM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Here is another example of what is presented at the start of this thread. Look at the uneven surface despite the polishing. Note that the inner of the loop is grinded. Oaks made around 1957 does not have these low quality features.

                          Peter
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Peter, in your opinion is there such a thing as a 57er oaks/swords etc? Or are we just playing word games?
                            I understand and have closely followed the discussion about 57er items, with regards to them being unofficial but accepted awards. I understand Uwe's postion on this. Do you think it is correct to class them as an official award? I say this having learned an awful lot from this forum and as a result have purchased a considerable number of items that I think you would class as "genuine" 57er.

                            Jess

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jesse View Post
                              Peter, in your opinion is there such a thing as a 57er oaks/swords etc? Or are we just playing word games?
                              I understand and have closely followed the discussion about 57er items, with regards to them being unofficial but accepted awards. I understand Uwe's postion on this. Do you think it is correct to class them as an official award? I say this having learned an awful lot from this forum and as a result have purchased a considerable number of items that I think you would class as "genuine" 57er.

                              Jess
                              The only oaks that i accept as "1957" are from the period 1955 to 1965, made by St&L. Others are to me fakes of third reich oaks.

                              Peter

                              Comment

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