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**Okrach** · 10-13-2005, 03:04 AM

Originally posted by WARLORD

I think I can be of some help. S&L are producing KC .925 silver at their works in Ludenshied. They supplied the Daughter of Baron Von MAERCKEN with a Cross, 1st Class and 2nd class in the 1957 form. The quality of the KC is very good and the blacking is done correctly.

What about the 'additional' awards like oaks, swords etc. ? were they produced in Ludenscheid as well?...

I am thinking still about this doubled '925' marks on my swords - I would say that the swords and the oaks were produced separately - every one has its mark hence two same marks on one item (built of two). Going further I would risk a question - is there a way to check how many elements were the 'english made 'swords made of?

And one note to Grant - have You seen the pictures of Jeff's Swords? Take a detailed look on its mark. It is as well '925' but look at its shape - it is 100% german made stamp!!! Its thin contures are nothing what one can see on i.e. my swords - my stamps are brighter and the numbers look diferent.

I would risk a thesis that the post war '925' 'additional' awards as oaks and swords were produced in Germany as well.

**WARLORD** · 10-13-2005, 03:29 AM

When the KC was ordered, they alowed me to have a set of Oakleaves and swords, these were also made at their factory and stamped with 925. Another important thing to note is that 925 sterling is a World Standard and not a British ONE. It goes with another standard known as Britania which is 950. Silver in UK until resent legislation had to be either of these standards to be sold as silver. 800 silver could only be described as white metal of high silver content. Germany has since the War used the 925 standard more so supplies of silver will be readily avalable in 925 standard. Hence the more resent use of this standard by S&L. WHERE THE NOTION THAT THESE PIECES WERE CONSTRUCTED UNDER LICENCE IN UK came from is a bit of speculation. I am sure that S&L would not undertake such a course of action.But I am sure they would be only too happy to confirm this either way.

**bratwurstdimsum** · 10-13-2005, 03:39 AM

Curiouser and curiouser...

FYI : Here is the thread that Grant would have got his information from, it was in 2003, on a deleted thread, and only exists in Google's cache....(ol' prosper was still a member then

before being booted out!)

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:f...n&client=opera

**Okrach** · 10-13-2005, 04:27 AM

Very nice find Jeff:

Here is a quote from this link (by Gordon Williamson):

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="bottom"><td style="font-size: 14pt;">Gordon Williamson</td> <td class="smallfont" align="right">07-31-2002 02:12 AM</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <hr> 925 is the English "Sterling" silver grade. I wouldn't say 925 was never used by the Germans because you do find it occasionally on original pieces, but doesn't it seem strange that the eary top quality S&L 57 stuff made on the original toling is either unmarked or 800, yet in the last few years, the really cruddy die stamping start coming out but in very high grade 925.

I know that 57 stuff is being made in England, and due to English law if it is in silver it must be stamped 925. I know who is doing them. Now, here is the thing I cant get confirmation or otherwise on - the guy had some business connection with S&L. It was rumoured that and may have made them for S&L almost as a sub contractor. If that is the case then they are legit, albeit not made by S&L. There was also a story going round that S&L got into bother for having what are officially sanctioned German awards made abroad, basically because they had no longer any commercial interest in doing them, there was so little demand.

Now this may all be urban myth but I don't think so, and I personally wouldn't have a 925 piece. I recently (couple of years ago - these 925s were around then) bought some pieces direct from S&L and what arrived were all 800 stamped.

They may as I say, be legit pieces made with S&L approval, but I wouldn't have one.

Better to wait and maybe find a nice 57 piece on EBay - hell no what am I saying - dont even go there

Gordon

I underlined two important thing which show a bit of inconsequence. If the Germans did the .925 (as They DID) why is it not possible that they used same .925 material to produce the post war pieces?

Again Jeff's swords example however made after the war has ORIGINAL German made stamp. Now, having compared my swords and Jeff's I would rather say that it would be my example that was purchased in England once (however as I said it came TOGETHER with the cross and both of them show the worn condition.

**bratwurstdimsum** · 10-13-2005, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by WARLORD

When the KC was ordered, they alowed me to have a set of Oakleaves and swords, these were also made at their factory and stamped with 925.

Any chance of a picture?

**bratwurstdimsum** · 10-13-2005, 06:40 AM

WARLORD. while we're waiting to see if you have pics, I've tried to get better pics of my 925 and a swerter that I think Okrach is referring to. The numbering is not THAT different. The one on the right is struck cleaner where as my one the 9 and 5 are stuck slightly at an angle down, so that the right side of the number is "bolder" than the left. The '2' is deceptive, in the smaller picture on the LHS it looks exactly like this font = 2 but under a glass and the higher mag picture the join between the horizontal arm and the diagonal is very sharp with no final curve. (if that makes sence!)

Attached Files

925 comparison.jpg (155.8 KB, 71 views)

**Okrach** · 10-13-2005, 07:21 AM

Hi Brat,

Yes it was Your newly purchased swords was reffering to. IMO your stamp is made in a 'delicate' way - so classical for the German manufacturers. I may be wrong though

But it is only my opinion.

PS. Swords=Schwerter not Swerter

**bratwurstdimsum** · 10-13-2005, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Okrach

Hi Brat,

Yes it was Your newly purchased swords was reffering to. IMO your stamp is made in a 'delicate' way - so classical for the German manufacturers. I may be wrong though

But it is only my opinion.

PS. Swords=Schwerter not Swerter

You are correct then! The numerals definitely appear thinner and more "delicate"

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