Japanese Navy Secretary Flag

[Thomas Craig]

Hi guys...I wanted to know what you thought of this flag. It is the only photo I have. Any ideas on rarity or value?

Thanks much.

[Jareth]

Scarce flag but not in best condition

[Nick Komiya]

Here, the official specs for the flag from the order signed by the Emperor on 7th October, 1889

[oldflagswanted]

zig-zag lines ???

Here, the official specs for the flag from the order
signed by the Emperor on 7th October, 1889

Hello Nick:
Nice "official specs" drawing reference.
Is there a Japanese Heraldry name for the
zig-zag lines? I've seen these lines used on
battalion flags too, & wondered about them.
OFW

[Nick Komiya]

That design feature is called 山形(Yamagata), meaning mountain shape. It has a long history in Japan, appearing on famous Samurai clothing in the early 17 Century and also appearing on the flag of the Shinsengumi, who were like the Shogun's Storm Troopers during the death throes of the Edo era. It has been used on army flags to denote transport troops at least as early as 1874. The navy also used it to denote transport duty, but the navy version was a double wave line as seen in the Navy Minister's flag. 　　

[Thomas Craig]

Thanks to everyone for the information. There is a guy I know who is selling one but like everything else these days I think he wants way too much for it. There are some pretty big holes in that thing!

Does anyone have an opinion on potential value?

Thank you!

[oldflagswanted]

thanks !!!

That design feature is called 山形(Yamagata), meaning mountain shape.
It has a long history in Japan, appearing on famous Samurai clothing in
the early 17 Century and also appearing on the flag of the Shinsengumi,
who were like the Shogun's Storm Troopers during the death throes of the
Edo era. It has been used on army flags to denote transport troops at least
as early as 1874. The navy also used it to denote transport duty, but the navy
version was a double wave line as seen in the Navy Minister's flag. 　　

Very interesting, thanks.
OFW

[oldflagswanted]

...Does anyone have an opinion on potential value?
Thank you!

TCP:
From 2008 WAF t=309782 ..."cabinet member flags"...
"These normally sell in the $100.00-$175.00 range"...
OFW
(below) As cited t=309782 thread post #6.

[Nick Komiya]

Here is the Shinsengumi flag

[oldflagswanted]

Again thanks ...

Here is the Shinsengumi flag

Nick:
Thanks for posting the nice "Shinsengumi" flag graphic.
I'll look for a "Last Samurai" movie version for my collection.
OFW
(below) Screen shot from "Last Samurai", I already
have a couple of these used in the film as shown.

[Nick Komiya]

The photo posted by oldflagswanted denotes the 1st Battalion as explained here

[Jareth]

Navy ministry I recently picked up

[GHP]

I guess the service academies also used the "Yamagata" flag. Here's a 盃 sakazuki from the Rikugun Toyama Gakko -- the Army school of infantry tactics, physical education, and military music:


Here's another Army Toyama Academy sakazuki showing a flag with an academy 10-point star below the zig-zag. [This one is not mine]



Found another sakazuki image in my files; I lost the bid on this one for the Toyama Gakko Teaching Staff:



By the way, as far as I'm aware, all service academies used the 10-point star. I recently saw a 歩兵学校 Rikugun Hohei Gakkō [Army Infantry Academy] sakazuki with the star:





--Guy