Ijlf sword

[Dennis J]

I have a question as I do not collect that much Japanese.I have a chance to buy 7 IJN swords.I want to know if the IJNLF carried navel swords or army.The seller who has been collecting since 1952 says that they are IJNF swords that he got from local vets.I know a story is a story but I have seen the swords and they are 100% navel.He has many navel daggers and 6 helmets and a few navel flags small and a real big one made out of what he calls raw silk?I have know this person since I played on his little league team back in the 50's and I remember seeing his collection many many years ago.He is in bad shape now and wants me to have his collection.Thanks for any and all help.

Dennis J

[Stu W]

Hello Dennis,

Sounds like you have lucked into a great opportunity although it's unfortunate that it has to come as a result of your friend's misfortune. I hope his final days are as good as they can possibly be.

I currently believe that NLF officers carried Kai-gunto, sometimes in leather covered combat saya.

I do not feel they used Army swords, particularly the Type 3, often referred to as a NLF sword in early publications and subsequently shown to be a late war pattern Army Shin-gunto.

Regards,
Stu

[GHP]

Here are the various photos of Naval Landing Force officers with swords:


"japanese naval landing force officer reading letter send by Lt. Cdr. Uroku Hashimoto after successful operations during the battle of shanghai, 1937"


"a infantry unit commander of the Special Naval Landing Force Sasebo unit armed with a katana sword (china 1938)"


"a commander of the special naval landing force in shanghai, 1937 "


"commander of the 2nd Yokosuka Naval Landing Force Lieutenant Colonel Watanabe giving orders to his troops before landing (Borneo, december 1941) "
[I can't tell about this sword]


"special naval landing force officers (shanghai 1937) "


"On August 9 1937, First Lieutenant Isao Oyama of the Japanese Marines attempted an illegal entry into the Hongqiao Airport of Shanghai, but was shot to death by the Chinese Peace Preservation Corps stationed near the military airport. It is still unknown whether Oyama initiated the intrusion on his own or acted on higher orders. Regardless, the Oyama Incident certainly heightened the tension in Shanghai "


"japanese navy troops in shanghai (1937) "


"troops of the 1st Yokosuka Special Landing Force jumping from truck during the Battle of Manado (january 1942) "


"japanese naval troops celerating victory (may 1945) "


"japanese naval troops in the streets of shanghai (1937) "
[This one looks like a kyu-gunto]


"japanese navy troops during the january 28 incident "
[Another kyu-gunto -- 1932]

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/437077-4/nlf2
"japanese officer of the naval landing force in south china in 1939. "

[img][/img]
"an japanese officer of the special naval lading force with indian officer of the indian national army (singapore 1942) "


"commander of the naval landing force wearing a dark blue uniform (shanghai 1937) "
[kyugunto]


"a naval landing force officer armed with a nambu pistol and a katana sword (shanghai 1932) "

source


--Guy

[Jareth]

I see that sight is back " stealing" images again. A few are mine

[Stu W]

Hello Guy,

Thank you for posting those images. The Kyu-gunto are easily enough recognized and I will spend some time examining the other swords on my computer monitor ASAP. I may be about to get some schooling here and that's always a good thing.

Regards,
Stu

[Stu W]

Hello Guy,

I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you posted these photos based upon captions provided on the web site but have not vetted the content.

Therefore, a question if I may please as I don't collect NLF militaria. Can anyone who does collect in the NLF focus conclusively rule out any of the above photos as being of NLF personnel based upon insignia, gear or by other means?

I know that this is a topic that I, and perhaps others, will find of great value if we can confirm both sword types and NLF usage.

Thanks to anyone able to contribute further.

Regards,
Stu
PS: Guy, let me know if you have already vetted these. Please and thanks.

[GHP]

Hello Guy,

I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you posted these photos based upon captions provided on the web site but have not vetted the content....

Hi Stu,

Correct assumption -- I did not vet the captions; I'm not experienced enough to even try. I just assumed the captions were correct.

Thanks for alerting me; in future I'll add a disclaimer.

Jareth: I was not aware the site was using stolen images, I thought they were public domain.


--Guy

[gunto]

I see that sight is back " stealing" images again. A few are mine

And 2 of mine.

[Jareth]

Thin line between public domain & private. Many sellers now watermark the photos they sell on eBay for this reason. If the sight in question wasn't charging a fee for images it might be a different story. They do so in a very sneaky way. Regarding Stu's question we are still learning about SNLF identification. Tough call based on just photos. I'd say all photos above are SNLF soldiers. Others have mentioned that many are simply ground based troops, base & port units as well as construction units of the navy. Towards the end many were pushed into combat & frontline units. They didn't have such rigid standards towards using a mixture of different gear & equipment

[Stu W]

Thin line between public domain & private. Many sellers now watermark the photos they sell on eBay for this reason. If the sight in question wasn't charging a fee for images it might be a different story. They do so in a very sneaky way. Regarding Stu's question we are still learning about SNLF identification. Tough call based on just photos. I'd say all photos above are SNLF soldiers. Others have mentioned that many are simply ground based troops, base & port units as well as construction units of the navy. Towards the end many were pushed into combat & frontline units. They didn't have such rigid standards towards using a mixture of different gear & equipment

Hi Jareth,

Thank you for that info. It would indeed then make sense that in times of need and with standards relaxing that some Army gear, swords included, saw service with the NLF troops.

As to the swords first mentioned by Dennis I think one can never know who carried then unless some sort of proof is present.

The whole issue of copyright, public domain etc. for documents is a complex one indeed. I'm told by a lawyer friend that most countries of the world do not have coordinated approaches to enforcement in the field because the laws governing use of items such as photographs are different in each country. Most nations view these offences as civil breaches to be dealt with by lawyers. The Internet has further complicated the issue when it comes to determining where an offence actually took place.

By the way, those are just some general comments. I'm not suggesting anything by them nor expressing a personal perspective. Just passing on some info.

Regards,
Stu