Japanese cap with muticolored star

[NickG]

I bought this cap (not in hand yet) and it has a Japanese style star and muticolored
for troops in Manchuria.
Is described as a Japanese officers cap. (manchukuo type)

[NickG]

=

[NickG]

I found this in an Osprey book, so Manchukuo Army insignia!

[NickG]

Is it real?
The RED part is not at the 12 o'clock position but in the second color plate (illustrations post 2 bottom) the YELLOW is at the top, just like my cap...
Strange!

[maverick87]

In that book (Ospery's Chinese Army), they say that the 5 color star was used by both Manchukou AND the Chinese Nationalist Army (KMT), but that unlike the KMT which had red as the top color, Manchukou forces switched the colors around, thus yellow was the top color of their cap badges. As for the piece you bought, it's really hard to tell if it's original. I would speculate that the insignia is original, but at what tim it was applied to the hat can be debated. The hat makes me think of civilian. Manchurian items are super rare because the state only existed from 1931-1945. They were known for getting alot of left overs from the Japanese, so their uniforms at time were mixed. Just the fact that the insignia is hand sewn on, the hat has no military markings or name inside, and the chin strap pins look reproduction/un-used mint, I have hard time beliving that it was originally constructed as we currently see it.

Check your mail I sent you something.

[NickG]

Thanks for the input. That explains the color orientation variances!
Agreed hard to prove if the insignia has been on there forever!
The insignia must be tough to find on its own! I assume rare!

Here's a pilots badge (web image) with YELLOW in the 12 o'clock position,
like my cap star.

[NickG]

Are the chin strap buttons an indicator of the cap's origin?
I have a civilian defence uniform and cap and the buttons are different...
The chin strap for sure is original, old and brittle (cracked already).

[maverick87]

The cherry blossom pins (the ones that are on this manchu cap) are on all army officer caps for the japanese army. Thats one way of distinguishing between officer and EM. I thought the cap looked strange because from the pictures the pins look super "fresh", while the chin strap is old. Original parts usually age at similar rates. I become suspect when i see some parts old and some parts new.

[Staldion]

Hello everybody.
Nick, isn't it dust that we can see around (and maybe under but you are the only one who can check this out)? This may be a clue to me.

Maverick, could we suppose that, if it's dust indeed, it's would have been removed when the parts were put together? Am I wrong?
For the pins if this cap was kept in a dry round that would have dammaged the chin strap while gilding would be safe isn't it? I don't know how corrosion affect it usually.

Just wondering, we would have to wait the item to reach Nick to get better pictures.
Thank for reading and sorry if I've made english mistakes.

Best regards,
Mathieu.

[RodneyO]

Hi Nick,
I got this cap insignia from a friend who's dad brought it home after the war. It look similar to the one on your field cap but round. It on the upper left corner of the page on Osprey's book.
Manchukuo Army cap star.jpg

[Jareth]

I have seen some officer's caps with hand applied insignias...& others that were machine stitched. A hard cap to judge. As for cap itself it could be a late officer's private purchase OR a civilian . The insignia could of been added post war to enhance the caps value http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Japan...s/J012763.html

[hc8mm]

In that book (Ospery's Chinese Army), they say that the 5 color star was used by both Manchukou AND the Chinese Nationalist Army (KMT), but that unlike the KMT which had red as the top color, Manchukou forces switched the colors around, thus yellow was the top color of their cap badges. As for the piece you bought, it's really hard to tell if it's original. I would speculate that the insignia is original, but at what tim it was applied to the hat can be debated. The hat makes me think of civilian. Manchurian items are super rare because the state only existed from 1931-1945. They were known for getting alot of left overs from the Japanese, so their uniforms at time were mixed. Just the fact that the insignia is hand sewn on, the hat has no military markings or name inside, and the chin strap pins look reproduction/un-used mint, I have hard time beliving that it was originally constructed as we currently see it.

Check your mail I sent you something.

I don't think the NRA (National Revolutionary Army), not KMT (which is a political party) used that insignia. Both used the blue sky and white sun as their insignia. I assume it is the Beiyang government because they were the ones using that multicolored insignia until replaced in 1928. I don't really trust the info written in the Osprey books on the Chinese armies. Good pictures, but bad info.

[Jareth]

I agree about Osprey books. Their illustrators took liberties with reality as well. Lots of bad info.

[hc8mm]

Right, their descriptions are based on their opinions. You can't really judge light green with yellow or grey with brown in black and white photos. You can get the actual unforms, but even there are different shades. Plus, the timeline in the "Chinese Army in WWII" is based off the US involvment in China and has no other information about other major battles without US or Western involvement. Bad and lack of info.

[NickG]

I have seen some officer's caps with hand applied insignias...& others that were machine stitched. A hard cap to judge. As for cap itself it could be a late officer's private purchase OR a civilian . The insignia could of been added post war to enhance the caps value http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Japan...s/J012763.html

True hard to prove when the insignia was added....
I found this on an Asian web site "speercollection"