I have noticed that some sword collectors do not seem to be interested in picking up what are often called "suicide" daggers/tanto. Those most often seen on Ebay are usually found in what appear to be kiri wood saya with 6-8" blades. Many of these do not seem to have any type of arsenal markings or ideograms either and I wondered if this is what kept most folks away? Many of the blades must be machined too rather than being hand made and I thought that perhaps this was another reason for lack of interest. Finally, since many lack any markings is it likely that these could be post-War produced? Thanks to the sword guys for any help on these questions........Mike
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The ones I have seen are always hand forged with a nice wavey temper line most signed -
For the sword guys....
This eBay auction finished up yesterday I believe. If you go to #290192550492 you can see the kind I mean. This one has characters etched into the blade but the kind I am referring to usually have nothing on the tang or blade, although they may have a temper line, wavy or straight. There are normally 3-6 of these offered on eBay in any one week.... MikeComment
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A Sword Was A Common Gift To A Shinto Shrine To Give Thanks To The Gods. The Majority Of The Modern Tanto Floating Around In Storage Scabbards Are Actually A Commercial Item That Could Be Purchased At Many Shrines During The War. Most I Have Seen Are Stainless Steel. The Concept Of The Majority Of These Being For Seppuku By A Kamikaze Is An Urban Legend. In Feudal Days, Seppuku Was Commited With The Wakizashi, Not A Tanto. An Exception To This Was For Woman Of Samurai Descent, Who Would Cut Their Juglar Vein With A Small Tanto Known As A Kaiken.Comment
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The Item Sold On Ebay Appears To Be The Reshaped Tip Of A Naginata. The Shaping Of The Tang And The Blade Is Quite Poor And Done By An Amateur. I See It Sold For Over $300.00. In My Opinion, Some One Paid A Lot More Than Thei Curio Is Worth.Comment
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For the sword guys....
Thanks Bob for your reply. That is what I was "angling" for in my question. So, the small knives that we usually see (like in the auction I referenced) were produced for the Japanese as souvenirs for Japanese? When you speak of urban legend, then is the notion that pilots, etc. carrying these on their persons to kill themselves rather than surrender is part of that legend? If the answer to both of those is yes, then I can understand why they are not collected by serious sword guys. I always thought that in ritual seppuku, a man would use a shorter type knife (like a tanto or something similiar) to inflict the fatal wound and his second would complete the act (beheading) using a longer sword like a wakizashi. Please let me know if I have the facts jumbled. Are the women's suicide daggers you mentioned collected much? Thanks in advance. MikeComment
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Mike-
Possibly Kamikaze Carried Tanto On Their Last Flights As A Part Of Ritual. I Pose The Following Question.
How Can A Young Lad, With Only Basic Flight Training, Pilot His Plane Through Defense Aircraft, Fierce Antiaircraft Fire And Steer His Plane In To A Ship While Going Through With Seppuku At The Same Time. I Just Don't See How That Could Happen.
In The Cse Of Seppuku As Practiced By The Samurai, It Was Normale To Use A Wakizashi. The Person Would Wrap A Cloth Around Part Of The Blade So As Not To Cut His Hand And Blunt The Thrust. His Second Would Behead Him With A Katana.
As To The Kaiken, They Like Any Other Japanese Sword, Are Collectable. They Are Not Seen Often In The Collector Market As They Have A Blade Length Of Around 5". A Now Departed Good Friend, Swordsmith Ozawa Masatoshi, Crafted A Kaiken For My Wife When We Married. It Has Been Polished, Mounted In A Storage Scabbard And Is Our Family Treasure. If I Have Some Time, I Will Attempt To Shoot A Photo Of It.Comment
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In reality, most of the blades used for the samurai ritual suicide "seppuku" was a tanto with full koshirae, and the samurai will wear a bluish-green (asagi-iro) colored kimono. In later years of the Edo period the seppuku part itself became even more "ritual" and used such items as a wooden tanto or a sensu fan and pretend to jab the stomach whereby the kaishakunin or second would immediately cut the mans head. The images created by many samurai movies and TV dramas that show white kimono robed samurai grabbing a tsuka-less bare blade, wrapping the blade in paper and jabbing into the stomach was a dramatized "creation" on the screen.
As for the Kamikaze knives, almost all the Kamikaze pilots, both navy and army, and other Kamikaze such as the Kaiten submarine pilots were given tantos as a "ritual". These were given more as a psycological meaning than actually using it before the attack. The pilots have to be in full control of their steering up to the last moment and no one wanted him to commit seppuku and lose any chance of succeeding in the attack. Obviously most all the real Kamikaze tantos persihed with their owners, so genuine pieces hardly exist (although some documented pieces do exist). Hence most stuff that show up on e-bay is a trinket or souvenir tanto or some other look-alike, and do not have much followers. But not to be mistaken with genuine hand-made tantos which whether it was Kamikaze or not have value and high collectability.Comment
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I just looked at the blade on e-bay. The writing on the side is not a prayer but a guys name "Mr.Shigeta (重田氏）”. This dagger does indeed look like a cut-down from a Naginata or something but anyways could have been used for anything. Many Yakuzas (Japanese mafia) used to carry these things around in their persons too !Comment
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For the sword guys....
Thank you Bob and Edokko for your responses. I understand now. When I was speaking of the pilot-type tanto for suicide I meant something different. Perhaps that is part of the legend Bob and you Edokko spoke about earlier. I always thought that these short "suicide daggers" were given to the pilots, etc. in case they should survive whatever attack they were initially intended to carry out. I thought that in that case, the man would stab himself with the knife rather than surrender or be taken captive. I think many non sword collectors might think this as well..... Sounds like it's part of the myth. MikeComment
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Tanto?
Hi guys,
While we are on the subject anyone care to comment on this one. All comments welcome. Thanks Zach
Overall length: 10 3/8"
Blade: 6 1/4"
Rosewood?
Bone Collars
Habiki appears to be steel?
IMG_0176.jpgComment
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One More...
IMG_0178.jpg
BTW purchased at a gun store in North Texas in the early 90's...will spare everyone the story that came with it
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Zach-
You Have What Appears To Be The Tip Of A Crudely Reshaped Naginata, A Blade Mounted On A Pole. The Reshaping Was Done By An Amateur And Likely The Blade Also Does Not Have Any Temper. Possibly The Type Of Blade Used For A Shrine Gift. I Seem To Remember This Piece, Or Something Very Similar Be Discussed In Another Thread. Isn't This The Blade From Ebay?Comment
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