ARVN Uniforms on Manions...

[nguoi tien su]

Hi guys !

So now that the auctions are over for 95% of the items, I would like to hear from you what was wrong with some of the uniforms, since you all agreed that they were wrong (either fake, modified, put together...).

My first question will come with this BDQ uniform. For me, this one is legit, so, I will be glad to understand what I missed...

Here are the photos from Manions :









For me, the shirt itself is a very desirable 1st cut pattern, 2nd pattern for the camo. The collar shows what is left of the size tag. The collar loop is also present. The pockets are large, with 13 stars buttons. The front is close with 6 buttoms. Nothing wrong? If I am not mistaken, this is a nice item in itself, not easy to get.

Then, the patches look right as rain. The IIIrd Corps is matching with the Thien Loi tab (rangers of the IIIrd corps). The name, the ranger qualification and rank are hand made, and look great.

So what is wrong ?

[nguoi tien su]

My next question will be about that VNAF jacket :







This is the summer version of the blue VNAF jacket. Used in Vietnam, but also very often for pilot (and NCO) while send for a traning in the USA.

I don't see anything wrong here ?

[Bob Chatt]

Manions has barely scratched the surface of the unifomrs that are in this collection. They have a lot more to run.
Honestly, the only two pieces that had insignia, that I felt comfortable with, are the two NTS posted.
The others just looked like the collector wanted to have a representation of units that he could find. Either that or a couple of unscrupulous dealers knew they had a fish and kept feeding him items.

[hochiminhtrail]

here is mine, the name tape is original as with barely visible name written on it probably with made with a marker, the 5 th Inf division SSi has a shadow under its edge, and you can see thats it has been there a long time, for the 7 th inf division patch i had some doubts, but the pocket has been removed at one time so to apply the patch, the thread arround the pocket is as old as the rest of the threads on the uniform, it s faded by its own. I m sort of confident.
the stuff sold at manions is not all bad, and yes there will be more to come, i spotted the air force jacket and knew it was right on, but i do not collect dress tunics, and left it to NTS.
nice one with the beogam NTS

cheers

alex

[hochiminhtrail]

NTS pointed it to me the wear of the red scarf as untit recongnition for the 7th Inf Regt, same color as the red tape above the name tab, on the shirt that i posses.
thanks mate for showing it to me, i appreciate it.

cheers

Alex

[nguoi tien su]

Actually Alex, on the photo, it is an elephant, not a tiger. I think it is the ... 9th Inf Regt? 5I have to check it out!). But the idea remains the same.

Good to hear about your feelings on those items Bob. Actually, I have just received the Beo Gam one and it is really cool. The patches show that they have been there for a long time (with all what you can expect on the inside of the jacket). All of them have been sewn on the jacket for the first time. A neat item !
With it was an extract of the good old manions printed catalogue!

[hochiminhtrail]

i coudnlt see it was the 9 th, my eyes are getting bad i think, or i m just getting old.

cheers

alex

[Ranri]

Hi guys !

So now that the auctions are over for 95% of the items, I would like to hear from you what was wrong with some of the uniforms, since you all agreed that they were wrong (either fake, modified, put together...).

My first question will come with this BDQ uniform. For me, this one is legit, so, I will be glad to understand what I missed...

Here are the photos from Manions :









For me, the shirt itself is a very desirable 1st cut pattern, 2nd pattern for the camo. The collar shows what is left of the size tag. The collar loop is also present. The pockets are large, with 13 stars buttons. The front is close with 6 buttoms. Nothing wrong? If I am not mistaken, this is a nice item in itself, not easy to get.

Then, the patches look right as rain. The IIIrd Corps is matching with the Thien Loi tab (rangers of the IIIrd corps). The name, the ranger qualification and rank are hand made, and look great.

So what is wrong ?

I think simply that the shirt is too big for the vietnamese. The Thien Loi patch looks to be likely machine made and probabaly at the end of the 60s, and most of rangers bt switched to ERDL after 68.

If it was early war jacket, I think we should not have Thein Loi scroll, just the ranger SSI

[nguoi tien su]

Whereas I do agree on the general bases, I won’t say it answers all.

Well, the shirt is medium, which was big for most Vietnamese. But it will fit both my father in law in his 60s and my brother in law, in his 40s, both Vietnamese, not very tall but stout. Look at photos, you can see very small soldiers, but also guys as tall as Americans.

The Thien Loi tab is for sure machine made. I don't know when it was first designed/worn, but I will certainly agree with you on a late 60's date.

As you said, most of the BDQ replaced other camos for a unique one circa 68/69. There are for sure photos with Ranger wearing Beo Gams taken in Saigon early 1968. And I agree they were generally often seen in the early 60's to 66.

For me it was likely worn in the late 60's or in a parade unit. Then, the fact that the rank is Captain also makes me confident that the uniform was worn as a sign of pride, showing experience in the BDQ.

Strictly speaking, I think that this war was really the worst example of by the book rules. See for instance officers still wearing French paratrooper jackets during Lam Son 719! You can also see pink pattern worn middle war when no one used them anymore. If it is the case with 47/53 pattern and pink pattern, why should it be different for the Beo Gams?

[thefallenbuddha]

....Strictly speaking, I think that this war was really the worst example of by the book rules. See for instance officers still wearing French paratrooper jackets during Lam Son 719! You can also see pink pattern worn middle war when no one used them anymore. If it is the case with 47/53 pattern and pink pattern, why should it be different for the Beo Gams?

Well said!
No rule is 100% in Vietnam.
Especially for officers, there was a lot of personal preference and leeway in uniform attire.

I've actually always wondered if the BDQ Camo pattern (which they are usually associated with) was really a camo pattern designed specifically for the BDQ?
Certainly, the BDQ had the highest percentage of troops with this camo, but the same pattern can also be seen being worn by regular army, airborne, TQLC, etc, especially more predominantly in the final years of the war.

Also, I have a book somewhere showing BDQ in 1974 wearing BeoGam. I will look for it tonight and try to post some photos.

[nguoi tien su]

Also, I have a book somewhere showing BDQ in 1974 wearing BeoGam. I will look for it tonight and try to post some photos.

That will be MUCH appreciated ! Thanks !

[Satcong101]

To be honest I've seen plenty of US LRRP's/Rangers still wearing Beo-gam by 1970, even though they'd been issued ERDL for quite sometime.
Beautiful example above.

[kammo man]

ALL patterns were worn up untill the end of the war .
This collection was vast with the owner patching up for his own pleasure .
If a couple of good ones were in there then great but they were for the most part pony .
Several members got to see this lot even before it hit the auction .
I did not however .
But have spoke to those concerned .
owen

[Spikey]

There some more dicked up uniforms on Manions, some ruined tigers...hmmmmmm

[Ranri]

There is another Tiger set with embroided nametape NGOC, it makes suspicius