Whats the best site for South Vietnamese and Cambodian army stuff

[Khmercollector]

Patrick, Unfortunately they are not numbered. Like I said in the post I just put up...they seem to be locally made.They arnt very nice. They look something you could buy in Ho Chi Minh city today *rolls eyes* however, I know that they are real because they came from him.

I cant wait to the cambodian jump wings document. I have never seen a Cambodian/Khmer Republic award document before.

I agree, we should try to find more veterans but it seems that there are VERY VERY few of them left.From the purges of the Khmer Rouge to the civil war that followed in 1970's~early 1990's most seem to have either died during the strife that occured then or have died from old age. Some may also have been killed by landmines after the war. There are signs of landmine victims everywhere in phnom penh. Many of the veterans are also living in Thailand these days because during the Vietnamese puppet government that took over after the Khmer Rouge, they did not allow anyone who had worked for the Sihanouk or Lon Nol regimes to work so many fled out of survival.Its all very sad actually .

[Patrick Dempsey]

Jesse,

my pleasure to post the items.

Just read your reply on the wings and the crudity of them, i agree entirely with you regarding the lack of workmanship on some examples, although it gives them a certain charm!

Regarding the 15th Brigade, it was heavily engaged throughout 1974 defending population centres to the North of the capital, and the capital itself, participating in both defensive and offensive fighting where it preformed well. I will try to find more on its duties prior to the end in 1975.

My badge is also a heavier metal than the standard "beercan" style, i just used the term out of habit!



Thanks for the further insights on the equipment situation, i found the section on dyed OG-107 fatigues particularly interesting, again, your theories make perfect sense.



Patrick.

[Patrick Dempsey]

Its all very sad actually.

Agreed.

Out of all the suffering that S.E.Asia has been through the trials of the Cambodian people have to rank at the top.

Here is a quick look at my locally made wings from a US MEDTC officer,whose entire uniformed life was sold earlier this year. I managed to get all his Cambodian service items from 1973-74 including some photographs of him wearing the uniform i have.

He also wore a cloth version of the wings, again in the French style on his uniform.

Note again how crude the reverse of the wings are, and the fact that they are of the French type.

Colonial influences are hard to shake...

Document photos to follow in a few days.


Patrick.

[Patrick Dempsey]

And the rear.



Patrick.

[hochiminhtrail]

Hy jesse

you are right about the colored cloth being dyed into black, it was fairly common under the DK regime, when reading accounts of refugees colored clothing was almost as valuable as jwelery especialy for the country side poeple who never had the chance to wear or to buy city clothing, it was sometimes exchanged into food. well fashion of time i think, and every girl had to cut their hair short.

i think to that NVA and KR units took whatever they could find, if you only think how the NVA or VC went after every empty US tin ration when they evacuated a base, they used every scarp metal to make something out of it.


im just woundering why do our para badges have no #s, maybe the Fank didnt think it was very usefuel and only issued #ed documents.

well i know that you have a big Khmer comunity somewhere in california on the cost, just cant recall the exact city. Big khmer community in france also.

But its very surprising that someone left cambodia with his military items. because khmer did not leave the same way as boat poeple like Vietnamese, most had to make a trek throught the jungle to thailand.

So you can be very lucky Jesse.

Patrick is there a good book on khmer military formation? or patches?

Cheers

Alex

[Patrick Dempsey]

Patrick is there a good book on khmer military formation? or patches?

Hi Alex, there are (unsurprisingly) few things written on the Cambodian military of the period.

There are a few monographs/reports from the period i can scan and send onto you as PDF's which detail the last years of fighting which are fascinating reading, i will send them with the beret photos.

I would recommend printing them out and adding them to your references on your bookshelf!

Published works are quite limited...for a very good overview/introduction i can recommmend 2 works by Kenneth Conboy published by "osprey".

These are:

1. The war in Cambodia - Men at arms series number 209.
2.South East Asian special forces - Elite series number 33.

The second book has a small but useful section on Cambodians, but no pictures sadly.

The other path to take is to network with other collectors in venues such as this, which naturally we are already doing! Most of my limited information has come from collectors regarding patches.


Patrick.

[zvezdah1]

This continues to be a superb and very informative thread. I thought I'd add a bit of VN here.

Attached is pic of the VC flag my dad and his team captured probably near hiep hoa/don tan my ca, late 64 early 65. It's approx 30"x48". The dark splotches are bullet holes. One of my proudest possessions and has been with me all these years.

For those new to the thread towards the beginning some pics my dad took while in vn.

Chris

[hochiminhtrail]

Hi Patrick

thanks for the informations again, that will be a great help.

Chris do you have any uniforms from you father?? Nice flag by the way at least a real one for sure

Im sure that there must be some more Khmer items arround i think that you even might find something in cambodia, as i said before in this thread i recalled poeple saying that they went to the Orussey market in Phnom Phen to look for military stuff (well the information goes back to 95), it was a new zealander who i met in the military market in saigon who told me this.

Cheers

Alex

[Khmercollector]

Yeah, your definately right Alex, its remarkable that he still had some of his wartime gear. From what I remember him telling though, very few people who escaped the Khmer republic did so via thailand because it would have required going through Khmer Rouge territory. Most of them left through the port city of Kampong Som or they crossed the border into South Vietnam. The exodus of refugees to Thailand didnt really get begin until the Vietnamese ousted the Khmer rouge in 1979. Most of those refugees ended up in parts of the United States like Long Beach, Honolulu and Los Angeles because major churches were bringing back their "converts" from there.I dont remember the details of how Saloth came to the U.S.A. I should really ask him the next time I see him.

From what my contacts in Phnom Penh tell me, the Old Russian market is a great place to buy military collectables.However, the mass majority of what is there is from the Peoples Republic of Kampuchea and State of Cambodia. There are tons of fake Khmer Republic patches and "Khmer rouge" caps for sale...but from what Ive heard, none of it is real. They arnt even good repros, there are a few guys on Ebay who are even selling them now and its very easy to tell the fakes from the reals ones. They also seem to be heavily reporducing the stuff from the Peoples Republic of Kampuchea and State of Cambodia now too which is very odd because that stuff is not nearly as popular for collectors as Khmer Republic era stuff (which in itself is still a miniscule market) However... if your looking for money from the Khmer Republic...well that stuff is everywhere there It no longer has any worth to them so it goes for cheap haha

Have a great day!

[hochiminhtrail]

Yes Jesse you are probably right about the Orussey market "old russian market" it might have been modern items or past 79 items that they are selling, i never went to the old russian market to check for military items back in 95, i was not into collecting Vietnam war stuff then.

But all the khmer and laotian patches that you find in the US, how did they make the voyage to America?

i mean i can understand the ARVN insignias made it to the US someway, but what about FANK items???, because the advisors were not in big numberes in cambodia as in Vietnam, neither US ground troops.

For the moment i havent been able to make a difference between fakes and originals, not really sure what to look at.

Yes now i remember now "Long beach" has a big Khmer comunity, thanks Jesse, tried to figure that out for the last 2 days.

So my guess is that your friend just escaped in Mai or April 75, because he couldnt have left through vietnam on a later period, in the early stages of Communist Vietnamese take over in the south of Vietnam they returned Khmer refugees to the khmer Rouge authorities, so he must have passed the border before the fall of South Vietnamese Republic.

On later periode 76/77/ a majority escaped through thailand and filled the refugee camps there.

then back in 77 and 78 you had had soldiers from Heng Samrin ( and Heng Samrin himself )division defetcting to Vietnam, this included a small portion of civilians from the Eastern zone, those filled Vietnamese refugees camps and they use to recruit from this pool of civilians to fight the KR on the other side of the border, and they were the nucleus of the Democratic Kampuchae Army .

I m not sure when Kompong som fell but i know that the US bombarded the port in May 75 because of the Mayagez incident that was just after the fall of Phnom Pehn.
So the port must have been very early in Khmer rouge hands.

This is just what i was thinking maybe he could have escaped on a later stage to Vietnam and being able to pass himself as a khmer krom ( Vietnamese of cambodian origin) if he could have spoken vietnamese.

would be interesting what theory fit here.

cheers

Alex

[hochiminhtrail]

Ups sorry made a mistke in my text its not the Demoractic Kampuchea that i ment but the Poeples Republic of Kampuchea (PRK).

Cheers

Alex

[Patrick Dempsey]

Attached is pic of the VC flag my dad and his team captured probably near hiep hoa/don tan my ca, late 64 early 65.

Hi Chris,

that is a superb item!


As per Jesse's request, here are a few items of Laotian origin.

Considering i posted the metal jump wings earlier in the thread, i shall continue the airborne theme with the next few posts.

To start we have a set of cloth wings. These can be found in a subdued version also.
You can make out the Loatian trident at the bottom of the wings.

[Patrick Dempsey]

A very nice and striking insignia.

7th Para battalion.

Not often encountered for sale.

[Patrick Dempsey]

Superb French made unit insignia.

3rd Para battalion.

One of my favourites, photographed using a nicely marked ARVN Khaki shirt as a backdrop.

More to follow either Saturday or Sunday.



Patrick.

[zvezdah1]

Patrick
Absolutely never fail to be amazed by the breadth and size of your collection. You've got some impressive pieces!

Chris