Require Information on M1915 Bluse

[jwuiske]

I have been trying to identify the people in this photograph with very little known information. I have worked out that what was thought about this photo was wrong, based on the Bluse worn by the two young men. The family thought this photo was circa 1880s but the bluse now identifies it as post 1915.

I can see a ribbon on the breast of the man on the right - if I'm correct it's a 1914(?) Iron Cross 2nd Class. Is that correct?

The collar on the man on the left has me stumped. I've managed to google a couple of photos showing similar markings but none with an explanation of what it means.

I really wish that whatever information was on the lapels was visible

If anyone is able to deduce anything else from this photo, please let me know. I believe the photo was taken in either Kreis Lauenburg or Kreis Stolpe, not that this narrows it down by much. And I'm sorry, this is the best copy I have.

Thank you in advance for the assistance!

[jwuiske]

The collar on the man on the left has me stumped. I've managed to google a couple of photos showing similar markings but none with an explanation of what it means.

More googling reveals they are called a pair of Litzen or Doppellitze, but what do they signify?

[pauke]

identity

You are correct in stating that the two soldiers are wearing the M-1915 tunic and the one fellow does wear the ribbon for the Iron Cross 2nd class of 1914. The collar insignia or Litzen on the tunic on the left would limit exactly which regiment he was in, but a clear enlarged view of his collar and shoulder straps would be very helpful. Likewise a good image of the shoulder strap of the fellow on the right might help.

[jwuiske]

Ahhhh... I was hoping that the shape could tell something substantial to help identify him. From what I had read, early on there weren't mamy of these except on guard units? I have zero idea about what military terms mean, so I struggle to Google for anything useful even until I happen across the term that I finally work out I need. So I have no idea what guard units are, what they did etc. Looking through many Google images the Litzen don't match many images... most of the Litzen are on backing whereas my bloke seems to have his sewn directly on the collar. Also I believe I read somewhere about the position being of significance but did not find it explained. It just kind of said notes how close it is to the front of the collar. My bloke's is set back a bit further. And it also looks more as though it is a single Litzen not a double Litzen. That seems even more uncommon. Can any of the above actually narrow down the unit or brigade or whatever I should be calling it? Unfortunately the family who originally had this photo is in the US and I am in Australia, and the current location of this photo is not known. My contact for this family in the US is wonderful, but she is also restricted by various factors, not least the deaths of the people who could possibly offer some answers to these questions. This is the best copy of this photo I have and I know that the number on the lapels would be THE ticket, but I don't have access to it 😢

[jwuiske]

... the one fellow does wear the ribbon for the Iron Cross 2nd class of 1914.

Is there any list of recipients available at all?

[jwuiske]

I have literally just received info that this photo was taken by Rudolf Maleck - Stolp - Bahmhofstr 17. Not sure if that helps

[Chip M]

The shoulder strap on the Bluse with the Litzen is very light colored, which would probably indicate that the soldier was in the Verkehrstruppen. It included railway, flight, motorized and airship troops. The straps were light gray and had the initial or insignia of one of these specialties within that branch. If a close-up can be taken of the shoulder strap, you might be able to identify which it is.

Chip

[Chip M]

There were some lists of Iron Cross recipients kept until about 1915, when it got too unmanageable and they stopped. This young fellow most likely did not see service until 1916 or beyond, so you would not be able to find any records pertaining to his second class cross.

Chip

[jwuiske]

Chip, thank you so much for the information! It's more than I had to go on, so much appreciated!.

Yes, the more that I'm reading about the iron crosses the more I'm inclined to believe that they were handed out "post-war"? is that correct? I've narrowed the photographer to being at that address definitely between 1912 and 1925, maybe earlier and maybe later - but that was through the Stolp Adressbüche as indexed on pommerndatenbank

I'm wondering whether it's more likely that this photo was taken post war?

I've located someone who has a copy of the photo, I don't know how good a quality and whether the eupalets and the litzen can be enlarged with detail or not. I'm waiting for a response (rather impatiently). I cannot see anything else in this photo to help aid an ID.

One more question... with the iron cross - was it awarded to all wounded or only for bravery? I have read there was a combatant and non-combatant version, and the difference in the ribbon, so this chap received a combatant one.

Thank you again for the help

[Chip M]

The Iron Cross was handed out throughout the war from the very beginning.

Chip

[jwuiske]

G'day again Chip, and thank you once more.

By the way, the chap with the Litzen... Do his shoulder straps look light or is it possible that they were framed with a light embroidery (as per the following image for example)? Or is that what you meant?


(Image courtesy of this page)

[Chip M]

It's possible that it is just white piping, but you have not provided a close-up for me to give you a better answer. It looks like (from what I think I see) a light gray strap with a winged prop.

Chip