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**vellocino** · 02-23-2015, 10:42 PM

Additional pictures, I have not yet received it and these photos are from the seller.

Attached Files

**vellocino** · 02-23-2015, 10:48 PM

Makers label, I couldn't find any info related to it, I did not like the quality of the impression, repro or just poor quality??
Rud. *(Rudolf) van Endert from Neuss, Germany, established 1804.
If you need more pictures, please let me know I don't want to saturate the server.
Thank you again,
Vellocino

Attached Files

**timp_be** · 02-24-2015, 02:51 AM

Hello.

For me it's a post WW1 cap and the colours don't look military.

Best regards

timp_be

**Uhlan** · 02-24-2015, 11:59 AM

Plastic(celuloid) Diamond

At what point did they begin to put the plastic diamonds with the makers name on them in the to of the hat? I have seen wartime examples with the diamond with no markings?

**Brian Calkins** · 02-24-2015, 02:04 PM

Cellulose acetate clear film was invented before the war, but the use of clear film as a sweat shield was not common until after the war. While it may be possible that a cap with a sweat shield is from the pre 1918 period, it is highly unlikely. This type of innovation would have been for high priced caps....and from the surviving examples of caps belonging to kaisers, kings and emperors.....no sweat shields are seen.

**vellocino** · 02-24-2015, 05:50 PM

So based on your helpful responses, I should conclude that this is not a period WWI, but pre WWII.
The cellulose acetate diamond Pekuro mark and sweat band make it quasi- impossible to date it to Imperial times, so this make me have 3 questions:
-How real is the possibility that during the period, non affluent servicemen could take their worn out caps to a hat shop (like shoes to shoemakers) for repair and a new cap base liner added?
- or can this cap belong to the Weimar era time frame?
-Can the style of Kokades give out some clues about its use, if not origin?

I could not find an exact match about the colors, but found a similar configuration, except for the Karmesinrot (crimson red) piping.

This has given me the opportunity to learn more about Schirmmütze (visor caps), not that I will have plenty of money to spend on them, but to have a useful knowledge when the opportunity presents itself again.
Thank you,
Vellocino

Diagram source comes from: http://www.kaisersbunker.com/ht/farben/farben1.htm
I added another picture of the sweat band.

Attached Files

**Brian Calkins** · 02-24-2015, 06:26 PM

I can only respond to the first question....

A service man of low income is not likely to have had a tailor made cap in the first place, so let's rule him out. A service man of moderate income is your most likely candidate as indicated by the less expensive oilcloth sweatband. A higher end cap would have certainly had a leather sweatband. This of course is assuming that all these parts are period....not replaced in modern time.

As for the likelihood of the cap being refurbished by a tailor....I could maybe see this in a wartime period, but not in the interwar years. I would think you could get a new cap for as cheap as having an old one repaired, especially in those post-war and depression era years.

Tailoring was a very competitive business stressing the purchase of new products. Most repairs back then were done by women in the family....being expert with a needle and thread themselves.

**R.Beck** · 02-24-2015, 06:38 PM

If I'd hazard a guess in my experience, that dates from about the mid 1920's

**Gerd W.** · 02-25-2015, 09:12 AM

Hello,

for me as a pre WW2 Police collector this is a post 1933, but pre 1936 cap worn by Prussian civil service officers. The cockades are matching for this time period.

The "big" question is, what kind of service .

The cap coloring (blue) and piping (carmesin) has been worn by Firedepartment or Gemeindepolice, just the branch band in green is off colored (black=firepolice / lightblue= Gemeindepolice).

But I´m sure, you can find the matching one in the late Prussia civil services

Cheers

Gerd

**Chip M** · 02-27-2015, 12:11 PM

I would also mention that this exaggerated saddle shape was not typical of the wartime period. The fonts of the sweat-shield lettering are also typical of the art deco period of the 1930s and beyond.

Chip

**vellocino** · 03-03-2015, 01:08 AM

Hi thank you all for your opinions, glad to hear is a period visor hat. Gerd impressive collection that you proudly show at the Polizei Visor Hats pinned thread, love those police Pickelhaubes, I found surprising your example of Landgendarmerie 1895+ visor hat on post #296 that is virtually identical of mine but all inverted, inverted colors and even the kokardes are in inverted position.

Based on the examples on the mentioned thread, what do you guys think is the possibility that this belonged to an NCO Prussian Beamter part of the Hilfs (und Feuer-) Polizei during the 1930's that never got an update to TR insignias?

What is the trading value on the visor hat?
Thank you all for your time and kind help, and once I receive the hat will look for any other helping clues!

Choose to have a great day!
Vellocino

**stonemint** · 03-03-2015, 02:06 PM

Hat was on Ebay, and I sought opinions on it with regard to which LaPo unit it belonged to on the Po forum, w/o success:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=787506

**vellocino** · 03-04-2015, 01:51 AM

Yes Stonemint, I won it at eBay auction, so far cracking the type of service it was used for has been an unsolved puzzle. Still looking for that voice saying I've seen one of those before!!
Any input is encouraged and greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Vellocino

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