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**Brian L.** · 08-16-2014, 04:53 AM

This isn't the place to ask. There's a Imperial Uniforms and Headgear forum. Ask there.

**timp_be** · 08-16-2014, 03:28 PM

Hello.

For me the first is a copy, the second looks better.

Best regards.

timp_be

**90th Light** · 08-18-2014, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by timp_be View Post

Hello.

For me the first is a copy, the second looks better.

Best regards.

timp_be

Both are original. Just two different makers & styles from before 1918.

Why do you think the "first is a copy" it makes no sense

Chris

**timp_be** · 08-19-2014, 01:55 AM

Hello.

Never seen this kind of prongs and I don't like it.

I can be wrong but it's my opinion.

Best regards

timp_be

**pzrwest** · 08-19-2014, 07:37 AM

The first one doesn't have prongs but the usual loops for the leather wedges to slip through to hold the wappen in place on the pickelhaube

**timp_be** · 08-19-2014, 01:34 PM

If you call that "usual" loops...

Is it possible to have a picture showing the loops better? Sorry but for my poor english prongs or loops it's the same.

Best regards

timp_be

**RoyA** · 08-20-2014, 03:37 PM

timp_b is correct.
The loops on the first example look like cotter pins.
Here's a closeup of one of the loops on wappen # 1
Also note how it is fastened.

Attached Files

tq0o.jpg (92.9 KB, 178 views)

**RoyA** · 08-20-2014, 04:34 PM

Authentic loops look like this...

Attached Files

pe05d.jpg (79.0 KB, 177 views)

**90th Light** · 08-21-2014, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by RoyA View Post

timp_b is correct.
The loops on the first example look like cotter pins.
Here's a closeup of one of the loops on wappen # 1
Also note how it is fastened.

Roy,

that type of loop which you refer to as a "cotter pin" is simply a variation type of loop that is sweated straight on to the badge. They applied some screw post attachments the same way. This is a different and lesser known maker of the Guard eagle. Your will note also that the guard star is attached by two folded prongs that are soldered. This is also a variation from the usual twin loop & leather wedge type of attachment

I am told that these variation guard eagles were used only on up-market private purchase guard Pickelhaubes and not regular government issue examples which have guard eagles attached by what you are calling "Authentic loops". These so called "Authentic loops" are a cheaper, less skilled way of putting an attachment on a badge.

I have both the variation guard star on its own and a complete variation guard helmet plate that were brought back by New Zealand soldiers from WW1. What I have never been able to confirm is if they were picked up in the years 1916-18 on the Western front or the occupation force of 1919.

It would be very interesting to see if anyone reading this has a high quality helmet with this type of variation guard plate still in place,

Chris

**timp_be** · 08-21-2014, 10:44 AM

Hello.

Sorry but for me the first plate is a (bad) copy. Never seen this model of loops and a soldered guard star.

Now if you're sure it's a good one...

Best regards

timp_be

**uhu1944** · 08-21-2014, 04:19 PM

Hello
More pictures of loops and eagles to compare
Regards
Sławek

**90th Light** · 08-21-2014, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by timp_be View Post

Hello.

Sorry but for me the first plate is a (bad) copy. Never seen this model of loops and a soldered guard star.

Now if you're sure it's a good one...

Best regards

timp_be

Looking at the new images which show a smaller size than the regular guard plate. This could be a private purchase guard plate from an Ulan helmet.

In fact that might be what these this type of plate is for and would make sense. However my example looks to be a regular size. I will dig it out and measure it.

These variation plates were in existence before 1918. The question is what sort of guard helmet were they used on,

Chris

**RoyA** · 08-21-2014, 05:40 PM

That is a new Galvano copy of an officer's Ulanen Regt. Nr. 2 Tschapka Wappen.
Zero doubt.
Hopefully Tony at Kaiser's Bunker or Adler 1 will post their opinions.
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**Jleb2** · 08-21-2014, 05:49 PM

Have to agree with Roy, not a good plate IMO

James

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