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    #1

    M18 Camo Shell

    Hello all, I would like to share with you my latest find. This is my first German WWI helmet! This guy was found hiding behind some modern era web gear and camping stuff at a local gun show. No other provenance on it, but I think it's a good camo. Couple questions...did I get the model number right, M18? What maker does S.i. stand for? I read somewhere that WWI German camo's can also be factory done...how does one tell? Also, please excuse the few photos, these were the best I could do with the lighting. If you need better closeups, let me know and I'll redo the photos on a better day. Comments welcome!



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    #2
    it's an original M16 camo. nice find

    Si stands for Eisenhüttenwerk Schlesien, Paruschowitz/ Oberschlesien. yours is a size 66.

    someone else can chime in on factory camo...

    Comment

      #3
      Your camo helmet shell is an M16. The lower M91 lugs on each side are for the leather chinstrap. The M16 liner system would have a thick leather liner band with three pads. The M17 liner system would be the same, except the liner band would be made of metal. The M18 liner system has the chinstrap bales attached to it... the chinstrap would attach to the liner on these not the lugs.

      The S.i. marking is the maker Eisenhuette Silesia, Paruschowitz Oberschlesian, and, the 66 marking is the size.

      The camo is original, and in very good condition.

      Congrats on a nice find!

      Chuck

      Comment

        #4
        Thank you for your responses gentlemen. I have been looking forward to getting a nice WW1 camo for a long time and I'm glad this one came along. In your opinions, is this helmet worthy of restoration, i.e. finding liner pads and rivets. Reproduction vs. original? And how hard is it to find original items for this helmet?

        Comment

          #5
          Very nice camo lid. Congrats! Ok, personally, I would hold out for original parts only. Original liners for these are very hard to find, so are the chinstraps. The split pins are readily available. I would not use original split pins with repro liner; you could break the pins (if, when) you find an original liner. IMO, repro liners take away from the original helmet. Good luck!

          Comment

            #6
            cyrano,
            You can restore a camo helmet if you have the original liner rivets. Putting other or repro rivets is a bad idea. M16 liners are expensive and will not increase the value of your helmet. In fact it will devalue it! Friend I,d leave it as you found it and just admire a nice clean unmessed with camo shell.

            Eric

            Comment

              #7
              I disagree with Eric on the topic of restoring it. WWII helmets get liners added every day around here and they do increase in value even when you declare what's been done at least they will sell for more on ebay.

              If you want to restore it I too suggest holding out for original parts HOWEVER there will be no harm done if you lined it out with reproductions parts and take them away as you bring in original parts. I did this with one of my helmets and the results were great in the end.

              W.

              Comment

                #8
                Everyone has a different opinion on this subject. If it's staying in your personal collection, and, you can find original parts to match the overall condition... go for it.

                Chuck

                Comment

                  #9
                  I am with my collection in a small town an hour from where I work and have some spare parts, liner, pins Etc. I can take it home with me and take photos if you want to look at them. I leave late tonight or early tomorrow.

                  W.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 704hoss55 View Post
                    cyrano,
                    You can restore a camo helmet if you have the original liner rivets. Putting other or repro rivets is a bad idea. M16 liners are expensive and will not increase the value of your helmet. In fact it will devalue it! Friend I,d leave it as you found it and just admire a nice clean unmessed with camo shell.

                    Eric
                    Wheeeeeew.... I knew this would get William fired up.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Thank you for all the help from my fellow collectors!

                      Of course we all have a different opinion on this subject...I collect both US, German, and now apparently, German WW1 helmet's and I fully understand the concerns regarding refitting helmets.

                      This helmet, being my first WW1 ( and a camo at that!), holds a sentimental value to me and I will try and hang onto it as long as possible. Should I decide to sell, of course the issues (refitted liner, pins, etc) will be fully disclosed.

                      As a matter of personal preference, I like my helmets to be "complete" and as such I see no harm in slipping in an original liner, pins, and chinstrap to an already empty shell. I may even decide not to re-bend the pins and simply have them there to hold the liner in place.

                      In any case, I want to thank you each for your valued opinions! (And also for some good leads on the parts I need! )

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Cyrano View Post
                        Thank you for all the help from my fellow collectors!

                        Of course we all have a different opinion on this subject...I collect both US, German, and now apparently, German WW1 helmet's and I fully understand the concerns regarding refitting helmets.

                        This helmet, being my first WW1 ( and a camo at that!), holds a sentimental value to me and I will try and hang onto it as long as possible. Should I decide to sell, of course the issues (refitted liner, pins, etc) will be fully disclosed.

                        As a matter of personal preference, I like my helmets to be "complete" and as such I see no harm in slipping in an original liner, pins, and chinstrap to an already empty shell. I may even decide not to re-bend the pins and simply have them there to hold the liner in place.

                        In any case, I want to thank you each for your valued opinions! (And also for some good leads on the parts I need! )

                        See my last email....

                        So far as not bending in the pins can be a bad idea too. If you are sure you will never find a better match the plus side in bending the pins is they won't get lost from the helmet. And there are so amny ways pins can get lost.

                        The dummy I am I installed the wrong pins into a helmet then wondered where they were when I finally found a liner for the helment I've mentioned already.

                        I had to remove them and re bend them and THANK GOD they survived!



                        W.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by C. Roelens View Post
                          Wheeeeeew.... I knew this would get William fired up.
                          William,
                          If its plain fieldgrey ok, maybe. But how is he going to match the pin heads to the camo. Personally when I see this it turns me right off, even on a good camo.
                          Ps how many loose original liners do you have at your shop??

                          Eric

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by 704hoss55 View Post
                            William,
                            If its plain fieldgrey ok, maybe. But how is he going to match the pin heads to the camo. Personally when I see this it turns me right off, even on a good camo.
                            Ps how many loose original liners do you have at your shop??

                            Eric
                            Well I had been writing a soultion to the problem when the internet dumped my info so try again,

                            There are 3 possible soultions to not having original pins with a camo. NONE of them are as good as the original pins but if one is willing to make the best of it here are the choices,

                            1. Repro pins painted to match. It's possible and depending on the helmet will depend on the skill needed.

                            2. Original pins with mostly rust on them. They work nuff said.

                            3. Original pins with no finish on them painted to match. Best of both worlds.


                            For me #1 worked well on a helmet that would never be restored because it was a size 70. No way I'd find a l iner so repro pins did not bother me. For other camo's it was never good enough but to each his own. It's up to the OP of this thread to do what's best for him. Only thing to consider is if you do not pin the pins in place you risk losing them.

                            If it were my helmet I'd give it a go on Option #3. And I happen to have some orginal pins that I feel have post war paint on them that I would sell off. OP tells me he already has a liner a WAF member sold him so it seems he's made his choice.

                            W.

                            (I only have one original liner on the lose. It only has two pads. )

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Here is a camo I had that did not have any pins at all that I had to match. This is the size 70 shell. You will note it's not an original camo however the I faced the same challenges in matching the pins and I thought at the time it was a good camo.
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