M-18 Pants?

[PlaceOfBayonets]

They are on the E stand. Never heard of m-18 pants. I do re enacting I'd think I'd have at least heard of them being reproduced.

What are they?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=382172

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Guys,

I've been searching WWI Uniform Data base sites like the Kaiser's Bunker. M18 pants are no where to be found.

Someone tell me what I am missing.

W.

[Gran Sasso]

Guys,

I've been searching WWI Uniform Data base sites like the Kaiser's Bunker. M18 pants are no where to be found.

Someone tell me what I am missing.

W.

I own an identical pair, rescued form a red-cross-cloth-collection-bag some years ago.
If I would not own those, I would have bought those at the e-stand in the wink of an eye.

All german military pants are rare - but those produced at the final stages of both WWs - well, not many made it back. Thats why you would not see them very often, not even in the best publications.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I need a pair of German Pants for the project in my signature line. What I need is someway I can verify they even existed for myself because it's big money.

Everyone is always crying "Do your own research" but I can't find anything about them. If they are not on the net, not in books. Cannot be seen in period photos, I can't ask a vet because they are all dead how does one verify them?

W.

[Gran Sasso]

I need a pair of German Pants for the project in my signature line. What I need is someway I can verify they even existed for myself because it's big money.

Everyone is always crying "Do your own research" but I can't find anything about them. If they are not on the net, not in books. Cannot be seen in period photos, I can't ask a vet because they are all dead how does one verify them?

W.

Well, if my statement does not verify them, then I cannot help you, sorry.

Like said, I own an identical pair, and it came in for free, rescued from being destroyed forever.

[Hoss]

W,
Man, you,ve just got to buy 'Imperial German field uniforms and equipment
1907-1918' volumes 1and 2. by Johan Somers. There expensive but really good
Two of the best ref. books I,ve ever seen. Amazon.com.
Sounds like your going through a frustrating time to make up your mannequinn.
Honestly, buy or get someone to buy for you, heh, its Christmas.
Then you can make your own 'calls'.

Regards
Eric.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

W,
Man, you,ve just got to buy 'Imperial German field uniforms and equipment
1907-1918' volumes 1and 2. by Johan Somers. There expensive but really good
Two of the best ref. books I,ve ever seen. Amazon.com.
Sounds like your going through a frustrating time to make up your mannequinn.
Honestly, buy or get someone to buy for you, heh, its Christmas.
Then you can make your own 'calls'.

Regards
Eric.

Hey Eric,

Please appreciate the situation. The pants are very rare, I need to jump on them if i am gonna score em. I already talked to the seller about payment cause I cannot swing that kinda money all at once.

Anyone might come alone and snag em. So I am wondering if you can post some shots of the book and maybe some text so I can see it for myself. I fear should i order the book it will be too late and from all the talk about how rare the wool is I am worried I have started to collect some of the kit for nothing.

So not frustraited really just trying to fight the clock. I will look into that book on ebay but it won't help me in this case.

William

[phild]

I think that you will find some level of disagreement among even experienced collectors as to what is correct and real when it comes to variations in WWI period German issue/contract trousers and breeches.

I personally feel that none of the existing reference books (and I have them all) show all of the variations that were made during the period or probably disclose all of the period regulations addressing allowed variations.

I feel this way because I have seen variations that I am satisfied are of the period and not modifications or fakes that have not been documented at this time.

I particularly feel that the breeches (as opposed to trousers) are the least well understood and documented in terms of variations.

Just to "come out with it" I would say that generally the conventional wisdom is that pre-November 1918 issue breeches did not have a rear pocket and did have long adjustment straps with bridles or loops. I for one do not feel that this was always the case and that some (probably only wartime made) can be found with the rear pocket and the shorter adjustment straps sans loops......both features present in the pair that is the subject of this thread.

I realize that many and maybe most Imperial collectors will disagree with me, but at this point my views have been taught to me by my experience rather than what is documented in existing reference books...although I draw on both.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I think that you will find some level of disagreement among even experienced collectors as to what is correct and real when it comes to variations in WWI period German issue/contract trousers and breeches.

I personally feel that none of the existing reference books (and I have them all) show all of the variations that were made during the period or probably disclose all of the period regulations addressing allowed variations.

I feel this way because I have seen variations that I am satisfied are of the period and not modifications or fakes that have not been documented at this time.

I particularly feel that the breeches (as opposed to trousers) are the least well understood and documented in terms of variations.

Just to "come out with it" I would say that generally the conventional wisdom is that pre-November 1918 issue breeches did not have a rear pocket and did have long adjustment straps with bridles or loops. I for one do not feel that this was always the case and that some (probably only wartime made) can be found with the rear pocket and the shorter adjustment straps sans loops......both features present in the pair that is the subject of this thread.

I realize that many and maybe most Imperial collectors will disagree with me, but at this point my views have been taught to me by my experience rather than what is documented in existing reference books...although I draw on both.

The M18 pants are going to Ebay now. Maybe I should just keep looking for what I know, that being the red piped trousers one normally saw during the war.

I already have marching boots and not low boots anyway.

W.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I have this from a maker of reproduction uniforms. He's also a collector. W.

**I am 99% sure those are WW1 Swiss!!!!!!!!! With a fake stamp carefully placed over the faded Swiss stamp. There are no German size markings which should be present and the stamp is too fresh. The buttons are not German (again Swiss I am sure) I saw some *** ****s in Europe selling WW1 dated Swiss tunics with German buttons added as M1916 German tunics (no such thing) . Buyer beware!!!!**

[C. Roelens]

The M18 pants are going to Ebay now. Maybe I should just keep looking for what I know, that being the red piped trousers one normally saw during the war.

I already have marching boots and not low boots anyway.

W.

W.,

Scott has a pair you're looking for on his site... if you're willing to dig real deep... $2500.00.

Chuck

[phild]

I have this from a maker of reproduction uniforms. He's also a collector. W.

**I am 99% sure those are WW1 Swiss!!!!!!!!! With a fake stamp carefully placed over the faded Swiss stamp. There are no German size markings which should be present and the stamp is too fresh. The buttons are not German (again Swiss I am sure) I saw some *** ****s in Europe selling WW1 dated Swiss tunics with German buttons added as M1916 German tunics (no such thing) . Buyer beware!!!!**

If the above input is concerning the breeches at the top of this thread, I am very doubtful in sharing the collector's opinion of these as Swiss.

I could go into 10 or 12 specific reasons that I say this, but there is really no need. I think that if anyone will post some photos of WWI era Swiss trousers/breeches we will see everything that we need to know to clear this up.

I will say that the photos are very marginal and there is more detail that would be helpful.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I tried to look for photos of Swiss WWI trousers but could not find anything worth looking at.

M18 pants are on ebay now anyway. I will bid but not that much. If I buy anything for over 2 grand now I won't make the rent so payment plans are a must or someone else has to pick them up.

W.

[C. Roelens]

If the above input is concerning the breeches at the top of this thread, I am very doubtful in sharing the collector's opinion of these as Swiss.

I could go into 10 or 12 specific reasons that I say this, but there is really no need. I think that if anyone will post some photos of WWI era Swiss trousers/breeches we will see everything that we need to know to clear this up.

I will say that the photos are very marginal and there is more detail that would be helpful.

I think the M18 trousers/breeches look good, but, i'm a long way from being an expert on WWI German wool uniforms. I do see faded numbers underneath the 1918 portion of the ink stamping... what do these numbers mean?

Chuck

[Hoss]

Gents,
No way these are Swiss!! look at the high back. The suspender buttons look like the type you see often on ww1 breadbags. Also all Swiss pants and breeches have belt loops with suspender buttons on the inside.And the lining is dead on WW1 late war German.
Swiss trousers WW1 and WW2 use a heavier grey wool and completely different grey cloth liner.
I mean come on guys, dont be so suspect in looking for the perfect 'Ink Stamp'

Eric.