PLM, KC Combo

[Stephen Previtera]

Had a question for those who compile stats. How many WWI PLM recipients went on to earn the KC in WWII. I've got Greim, von Bock, Ernst Busch, Goring, Rommel off the top of my head. Was there a thread on this previously?
Stephen

[Les]

Had a question for those who compile stats. How many WWI PLM recipients went on to earn the KC in WWII. I've got Greim, von Bock, Ernst Busch, Goring, Rommel off the top of my head. Was there a thread on this previously?
Stephen

Stephen,

Theo Osterkamp flew combat missions in both wars, and became a "double ace" during the Battle of Britain. He was awarded the PLM in WWI, and the RK in WWII. He was also elected titular head of the "Ritter des Ordens, Pour le Merite" by his fellows in the 1930's and continued to serve in that capacity until his death. (For example, the 50 year crown to Jacob's PLM, was authorized by Osterkamp in 1967!)

Friedrich Christiansen, a fellow naval flier (to Osterkamp) received the PLM in WWI, and the RK in WWII.

Alfred Keller, a WWI flier, and "Generaloberst" in the later "International Debate".

Ernst Udet...

Schleich and Loezerer, if memory serves me correctly, can be added to the list.

I don't think this completes the list, and there may be a couple of infantry types that I'll check on later today, and get back to you on, provided no one else beats me to it.

By the way....any hints on when the PLM book might be going to the printers?

Les

[FrankS]

GFM Fedor von Bock
Gen. d. Inf. Kuno-Hans von Both
GFM Ernst Busch
RM Hermann Göring
GFM Ritter v. Greim
GL Siegfried Haenicke
GO Alfred Keller
GL Heinrich Kirchheim
GM Otto Lancelle
GO Bruno Loerzer
GL Theo Osterkamp
GL Johann von Ravenstein
GFM Erwin Rommel
GM (posth.) Karl Rothenburg
GM Siegfried Runge
GFM Ferdinand Schörner
GM Wolf v. Stutterheim
GO Ernst Udet
GM (posth.) Horst von Wolff

That's the complete list of all PLM + KC winners

[Stephen Previtera]

Thanks Les, Danke Frank.
Les, the PLM book will be going to the printers in about 25 days.
Stephen

[Rick Research]

Of course, the drawback is that there was no single IMPERIAL equivalent to the 1939 Ritterkreuz.

The Pour le Merite was PRUSSIAN, with some Imperial bestowals across state lines.

But awards like the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order (conferring personal nobility on recipients who were commoners) and the Baden Military Karl Friedrich Order certainly come within "rare and exclusive" criteria that say, the Saxon St Heinrich Order (much more widely awarded) did not.

These Imperial ORDERS could also only be awarded to officers, while a RKEK could be bestowed regardless of rank... so then ENLISTED "top awards" like the Prussian Gold Military Merit Cross or Bavarian Gold Bravery Medal or Saxon St. Henry Gold Medal come into play.

Imperial is... messy!

[Dave Danner]

Here is a probably somewhat incomplete list. As Rick notes, the Saxon (and Württemberg) orders tend to be more common than the Baden and Bavarian ones.

There are at least 4 who received the Knight's Cross and at least two of the premier WW1 bravery awards:

• Hermann Göring - Grand Cross of the Iron Cross, KC, Prussian Pour le Merite, Baden Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Order
• Robert Ritter von Greim - KC with OL and Swords, Prussian Pour le Merite, Bavarian Military Order of Max Joseph
• Bruno Loerzer - KC, Prussian Pour le Merite, Baden Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Order
• Erwin Rommel - KC, Prussian Pour le Merite, Württemberg Military Merit Order

Knight's Cross and Pour le Merite you already have from Frank.

Knight's Cross and Baden Karl-Friedrich Military Merit Order:
Georg von Bismarck
Hermann Göring
Hans Kissel
Bruno Loerzer

Knight's Cross and Bavarian Military Order of Max Joseph:
Robert Ritter von Greim
Bruno Ritter von Hauenschild
Hubert Maria Ritter von Heigl
Ritter von Hengl
Wilhelm Georg Ritter von Leeb
Max Ritter von Pohl
Hans Ritter von Schmidt
Eugen Ritter von Schobert
Hermann Ritter von Speck
Wilhelm Ritter von Thoma

Knight's Cross and Saxon Military St. Henry Order:
Otto Barth
Karl Burdach
Dietrich von Choltitz
Werner von Erdmannsdorff
Johannes "Hanns" Frießner
Gottfried Frölich
Walter Hartmann
Fritz Hertzsch
Kurt Herzog
Friedrich Kirchner
Walter Krüger
Paul Laux
Walter Melzer
Egon von Neindorff
Ferdinand Neuling
Friedrich Olbricht
Johann Pflugbeil
Kurt Pflugbeil
Wilhelm Philipps
Georg Postel
Hans-Wolfgang Reinhard
Georg Hans Reinhardt
Werner Richter
Werner Schmidt-Hammer
Felix Schwalbe
Hans Freiherr von Tettau
Ludwig Wolff

Knight's Cross and Württemberg Military Merit Order:
Karl Allmendinger
Rudolf von Bünau
Walther Fischer von Weikersthal
Hermann Geyer
Leo Freiherr Geyr von Schweppenburg
Curt Haase
Dietrich Kraiß
Hubert Lanz
Theobald Lieb
Kurt Oppenländer
Otto Ottenbacher
Erwin Rommel
Richard Ruoff
Hans Schmidt
Wilhelm Schneckenburger
Dr. Hans Speidel
Hugo Sperrle
Rudolf Veiel
Friedrich Zickwolff

Knight's Cross and Prussian Golden Military Merit Cross:
Wilhelm Hemmer
Richard Kotz
Hermann-Bernhard Ramcke
Fritz Stürtz
Gustav Wagner
Franz-Josef Welzel

Knight's Cross and Austrian Military Order of Maria Theresa:
Dr. Friedrich Franek
Alois Windisch

You could add OL and Swords holder Gotthard Heinrici to any list too. No PlM, but his Carl Eduard War Cross (97 awards) and Oval Silver Duke Carl Eduard Medal with Crown and Sword Clasp (344 awards) were rather rare awards from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

[Wild Card]

With regard to some of the above information, I happen to have the urkunde to Gen. d. Flg. a.D. Friedrich Christiansen as awarded by Die Ritterschaft des Pour le Merite in recognition of the 50th anniversary of his award. It is dated 11 XII 1967 and signed by Der Ordenskanzler Theo Osterkamp. Along with it are two and a half pages of “statutes”.

As authorized, it seems that General Christiansen then had a very Saxon-looking crown added to his cross.

[Deruelle]

Hi,

Concerning officer in WW1 who received KFVO and KC in WW2, one name have to be add : Leutnant Karl Ens of 109e GrR of Baden. He received KFVO on december, the 31th 1917.

During the WW2, he was Major in Kdr II/I.R. 125 and received the KC on may, the 14th 1941.


Christophe

[Dave Danner]

Hi,

Concerning officer in WW1 who received KFVO and KC in WW2, one name have to be add : Leutnant Karl Ens of 109e GrR of Baden. He received KFVO on december, the 31th 1917.

During the WW2, he was Major in Kdr II/I.R. 125 and received the KC on may, the 14th 1941.


Christophe

Thanks!

The main reason why the list I put together is incomplete is that it is hard to find biographical information on soldiers who didn't make general in WW2. Ens apparently ended the war as a colonel.